5.0 Job change wishlist

[KisaiTenshi]

You're wrong. You know it, I know it, anyome with common sense knows it. I don't even feel the need to point out why, it's clear enough from your post you don't understand anything about WHM.

It's sad you've kind of forced me to respond to you as if you were a troll even though I don't believe you are one. The problem is you're so misinformed about how this game plays to the casual observer it seems... trolley.

Also please show me a hardcore raider that spams Medica II/Regen. Link a log or a video please. I'll wait.

Spare me the insults.

Go play a command mission as a DPS, and then compare it to a MSQ run as a DPS. Healers complaining about not getting lilies? How about not overhealing like everyone is standing in a lava floor.

Command mission:
Healer casts stone II until someone takes damage, then casts Lucid Dreaming, Largesse, and then casts Cure II on the player with damage, then resumes casting Stone and Aero. If more than one player takes damage, they immediately cast Medica II. Like, even I think this is stupid, because they reach for Medica II not when the party is at 50%, but at almost-full. They never cast Regen, Medica or Cure III.

In fact, the command mission healer casts Medica II when not even being level 50, and does so only when two players have been damaged greatly.


Otherwise they only cast Cure II to top up the tank.



MSQ, pretty much every time: WHM or AST casts Medica II/Aspected Helios immediately after the cutscene stops, and keeps casting it. No Lucid Dreaming, No Largesse, just casting it for whatever reason. Like I don't know who is giving these people advice, but there are far more players doing things as inefficient as possible. Same with all CT raids. Just because it's a faceroll content, doesn't mean you spam HoT's.





Which I will reiterate. The gauges are there to tell you how SE thinks players should be doing the job. If you want to play it inefficiently, go right ahead. Nothing is stopping you. They are not limit break bars. But please don't pretend that Yoshi-P hasn't made it clear on no less than a dozen separate occasions that they intended for healers to use Cure and Cure II (or Benefic and Benefic II.) The gauges and the command mission point directly towards using Cure II to heal. The command mission healer has essentially unlimited MP so they do not need Lucid Dreaming for anything but an Enmity dump. The command mission healer only DPS's when nobody is bleeding.

And don't be surprised if whatever they change to WHM and AST next pushes harder against the raider healer meta.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5la_...youtu.be&t=280


https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...-Event-5-19%29

This method is for the beginners.

“overheal”, “needlessly” ?
Maybe because it’s the better way to heal teammate over time, don’t you think ?
And sorry, but with Cure I & II, you can overheal too (+ embrace overheal). And you are losing a lot of time to do so whereas you have hot + embrace to recover life of the tank/player with “raider meta”, and are free to do what you want during this time.

The lily system doesn't want you to overheal. The game is casual oriented, if they actually punished overhealing by ripping aggro away from the tank, the raider meta would disintigrate.

If I go into MSQ as a healer for the tomes, the only time I even use Medica II is to pull the mobs towards the center during the first Livia phase. MSQ does so little damage now that everyone has to be standing in every bad to need it. Like you don't even need it when the entire party stands in bad during the first encounter with Gaius in the Praetorium, and you don't need it with Nero either.

Yet, when the tank hasn't even pulled and the co-healer will pull out Medica II or Diurnal Aspected Helios, on trash, on bosses, even when waiting for Cid to blow open a hole in the wall. There is no logic to any of this.

Let's just roll with the thought that SE created WHM strictly with a "heal only" mindset. They'd have to be pretty incompetent to not realize that the very same ogcds they gave WHM since SB has enabled them to do the very opposite of this identity and heal as little as possible.

Not to mention this is straight up shafting over half of all the other WHMs who actually want to contribute to their group and DPS, as the lily system doesn't benefit them at all.
Perhaps it's true. Perhaps they do want WHM to be a pure healer. But the way to do that isn't to just ignore the other half of the playerbase that would prefer to do otherwise. No other healer or tank is forced into a way to play like this, WHM shouldn't be either.

If they wanted the healer to be a pure healer and have no DPS capability at all, they would have removed the DPS capabilities. They haven't. If they wanted to put a hole in the current meta without torpedoing it, all they have to do is make HoT's rip enmity away from the tank whenever they're stacked or clipped. Hence regen OR medica II, not AND. The game never calls for two stacks of HoT's. Ever. Scholars don't have have them, and can't spam them.

[Saraphin]

you are pointing out the command missions. please note your Squad has NO MP bar, if you've played WHM, you can gauge where the MP would be per cast. even with Lucid, if you were playing as the NPC Squadron Clerics, you'd be out of MP way too fast.

[Deceptus]

Snip

If they wanted the healer to be a pure healer and have no DPS capability at all, they would have removed the DPS capabilities.

And if they would have done that, leveling a healer would be impossible. This is why since at least Everquest, healers have had some sort of decent damage capability.

[Miste]

Command mission:
MSQ, pretty much every time

Moro asked you to show them a hardcore raider healer who spams Medica II/Regens...

Command missions and MSQ are not where you find hardcore raid healers.

the command mission point directly towards using Cure II to heal.

Command mission healers are Conjurers...........................they don't even have lillies and you do realize Conjurer's only have 4 healing spells right? Cure, Cure II, Medica, and Medica II. So of course they will use Cure II to direct heal? They don't have Regen, Tetra, Assize, Asylum, Bene, or Plenary.

If you are just going to reply to people with your usual tangents that have nothing to do with what they asked you then why bother to reply at all? Like I've said many many times before you always do this when confronted with something you can't argue.

Tangents, tangents, and more tangents of irrelevant stuff. Command mission CNJ's have nothing to do with raid healing or even end game healing for that matter for extremely obvious reasons. MSQ is level 50 where you don't even have anything to use Lillies on until level 52. None of this is end game healing.

What does level 50 MSQ healing and conjurer command mission healing have to do with level 60+ healing???

Which I will reiterate. The gauges are there to tell you how SE thinks players should be doing the job. If you want to play it inefficiently, go right ahead. Nothing is stopping you. They are not limit break bars. But please don't pretend that Yoshi-P hasn't made it clear

What SE or Yoshida think has nothing to do with this topic.

Just because the devs design something one way or another doesn't mean the community has to smile and accept anything they do. If people want to ask for changes to lillies then they can do that.

Trying to argue about what someone else said they want to see changed about lillies just because YOU personally think they are okay is useless in the context of this thread.

This thread is asking for changes people want to see for 5.0. These posters don't care what you think about it or how the devs designed it. They are listing changes they personally want to see for whatever reason they want it.

Just so you know they could change lillies easily where the less optimized play style of using a lot of Cure I/II AND the more optimized play style of using regens effectively to make room for more DPS can both benefit from Lillies. So what is your problem with this? You'll still be able to play your less optimized style.

And don't be surprised if whatever they change to WHM and AST next pushes harder against the raider healer meta.

You don't even understand the raid healer meta, so...I don't understand like.... what is this anyway? Trying to threaten raiders or something with your opinions just because some WHM's want lillies changed for the better? /shrug

If you're response to me is going to to be "you're wrong" again, save it.

You are definitely wrong. You have no experience in savage or ultimate raids on healer so what makes you think you know anything about raid healer meta?

[Caduagm]

Can the WHM people stop moaning in every single thread? Seriously... There's a bunch of threads to discuss about WHM, like this one http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-Lily-II-now
Please go there and stop messing around other threads that has nothing to do with WHM like this one.
Thank you very much.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Again, if they're trying to push for healers to use their manual heals more, they're doing an awful job at it.
There's just not enough incentive to use these heals when your OGCD heals handles everything.
I'd also like to say that even though SE seems hell bent on making healers out to be pure healers, they constantly give them DPS quality of life. Just look at the Maelfic III and lightspeed changes for AST. Does that look like changes that punish DPSing?

Also, I can't believe you're using the very shaky, very subpart NPC AI fighting style to observe how you should heal. That's a first for me...

[Warghoul570]

As someone that mains drg I want my ring of thorns back

[Ghishlain]

If you don't always have three lilies, you are playing the job wrong.

So~ When are you going to post a video of Swallow's Compass / Hell's Lid / Fractual Continuum (Hard) so you can show us how you play WHM properly? I'd love to review that thoroughly like I did in the past with a previous video.

In all seriousness, the Lily system needs rework because the habits it teaches you effectively tells you to ignore optimizing 95% of the rest of your kit. If we're supposed to only use Tetra / Assize / Asylum when we have three lilies, we'll probably only end up using them one time each during the course of a raid encounter.

The CD reduction on lillies mean nothing if you aren't firing the CDs on cooldown but we have trouble generating Lillies because we can only get them from using single target heal spells. How counter intuitive is that?

[IttyBitty]

I can't believe that your grand argument relies on command missions as a lynchpin.

I can't even.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If you're response to me is going to to be "you're wrong" again, save it. The proof is in the pudding.

There are two ways to play WHM. You can use Cure and Cure II as your main heal, exactly like Yoshi-P plays it. You then have 20% more use off Assize and never run out of MP and rarely even need to use Lucid Dreaming. This is the "fishing for a proc" method of using Cure with free Cure II's. It's the same on AST, as Benefic does the same with Benefic II.

Or

You can play the Raider meta WHM which is to overheal by casting regen and medica II needlessly so that you can maximize DPS. Same with AST, cast the HoT's and then just DPS.

Wrong.

There have never been two ways to play White Mage. It functions precisely the same as every healer; you maximize the number of oGCD and Regen ticks you can exploit to avoid casting heals as much as possible. The fact you cite "raider meta" only to subsequently claim they overheal demonstrates your profound lack of understanding. Good raid healers have little overhealing because they allow HoT to tick people up. Cure II spam, meanwhile, is an absolute waste of your MP which can be better spent on Stone IV or Aero II/III. Fishing for free Cures is even worse due to you using your least efficient heal. The odds are staggeringly low you will ever actually benefit from that, especially when White Mage has far superior options at its disposal. For example sake...

Cure I: 10,441
Regen: 3600-3800 range per tick

Even at the lowest estimation, that Regen will tick for 25,200 at the cost of only 240 more MP. Unless the tank needs immediate HP, Regen is VASTLY better than Cure I and even Cure II. Granted, the latter at least has more value.

Regardless, what the hell qualifications do you have to speak on "Raider meta?" You aren't a raider, do not even try to optimize, spent the better part of pre-Stormblood being laughed off the forums following your insistence White Mage heals in a manner it simply doesn't and yet you have the audacity to critique people who have not only theorycrafted healers but have Ultimate clears under their belts? At least you have White Mage leveled this time.

Hmm, I wonder who has a better understanding of White Mage? Miss Kisai who has never dabbled in anything harder than a dungeon or Entropy's White Mage who used Cure I once in their clear of Ultimate.