Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Cupcakesu]

No one likes spear because only abilities used under the effects of spear have shortened cool-downs and it is a nightmare to coordinate. Otherwise situationally spear could very powerful. The lily mechanic's effect is stronger than spear as it allows the whm the ability to dictate when used. It will also provided reliable cooldown reduction through an entire fight if nothing changes further. The ability for cure 2 to proc a lily 100% has helped see to that. This of course is not a statement on efficiency of casting cure 2 or whether the mechanic is interesting.

Except it doesn't really allow the WHM the ability to dictate when used, because it requires you use none of your oGCD skills if you want to accumulate Lilies. Every cast of a skill that can be reduced will immediately consume all Lilies in your possession. This is true also for the new shield spell. They both have the same fundamental design issue in that you can't plan around it because they're too limiting if you try to. Further, oGCDs will often have set times you want to use them. Reducing their CD isn't going to help most of the time, making CD Reduction overall an undesirable or useless mechanic in many cases.

CD Reduction could make for a reasonable supplementary addition, but the Lily system really needs something else to make it stand out and useful. As it is now, it hits the same issues that make Spear fodder.

[Feidam]

Except it doesn't allow the WHM the ability to dictate when used, because unlike Spear it requires you use none of your oGCD skills if you want to accumulate Lilies. They both have the same fundamental design issue in that you can't plan around it, and they're too limiting if you try to. They're both nightmares to coordinate. Reducing their CD isn't going to help most of the time.

It is only limiting to those that will refuse to use the lily building skills. Furthermore you get to choose at which level you burn the lilies, one up to three. And people will be and already are burning assize on cooldown so it will make assize that much stronger through even more use. That's not even considering the other abilities that can utilize the lilies. Lily is actually quite easy to coordinate. The fact is people just can't stand the though they will have to cast a cure. Never mind they have no clue what kind of healing demands will be present.

[Cupcakesu]

It is only limiting to those that will refuse to use the lily building skills. Furthermore you get to choose at which level you burn the lilies, one up to three. And people will be and already are burning assize on cooldown so it will make assize that much stronger through even more use. That's not even considering the other abilities that can utilize the lilies. Lily is actually quite easy to coordinate. The fact is people just can't stand the though they will have to cast a cure. Never mind they have no clue what kind of healing demands will be present.

I repeatedly edited my post, so sorry if you caught it early after I initially posted it.

Anyway, you could arguably use it to spam Assize as much as possible, but building Lilies would still require you avoid using all of your other oGCD skills unless you're spamming Cure consistently between them. If skills used up one Lily it might be more manageable, but as it is right now all Lilies disappear the moment you use anything, and Lilies 1-2 give negligible (4-10%) CD reductions so that you may not even get to use the skill one more time than usual in an entire fight. If the entire mechanic in a fight results in one extra Assize, is it really a good/worthwhile system?

[Feidam]

If the entire mechanic in a fight results in one extra Assize, is it really a good/worthwhile system?

If you recall I specially pointed out that it was a look at the two effects, not a judgement on if I thought the system was worthwhile. But since you asked, with how it was based on the San Fran media tour I didn't like it , but could see potential with some changes. Now we know some whm changes have occurred just not what they all are so I'm reserving judgment.

[CaeliaCat]

Just leaving more feedback..

As others have pointed out, an increased proc rate from Cure II on lilies is nice, but ultimately does not address the disparity between WHM and AST/SCH.

My preference would be that WHM gets a comparable ability to Spread Arrow / Spread Balance / Change Stragem. Why doesn't WHM have Haste? or Reflect (to a limit)? Both AST and SCH bring so much utility and party wide damage support that if SE wants to stick a pure healer role and refrain from giving WHM any utility whatsoever, they really need to buff WHM healing output so that it is undeniably superior to AST/SCH.

If WHM is really going to be relegated to a pure healing role, what about:

Lilies build on cure, cure II, regen, medica, medica II at various proc rates (lower on HoTs). Lilies provide an innate spell speed increase while they are active. WHM can expend ONE lily for Divine Benison. Lilies DO NOT go away on Assize, Asylum, or Tetra. Those oGCD heals are already on short cooldowns, we don't need to make them shorter through RNG. Giving WHM a spellspeed increase AND better / more frequent shields would make the "pure healer" WHM a step above the competitors, but still lack party utility. One small 15% shield that uses all lilies is an awful ability, and 10% stoneskin would likely be better.

As for confession stacks and plenary indulgence, the timer needs to be at least 1 minute if the objective is to be able to heal, say, two tanks during an add phase.

[dark494]

As for confession stacks and plenary indulgence, the timer needs to be at least 1 minute if the objective is to be able to heal, say, two tanks during an add phase.

It can already, timer resets every time they get a stack, so theoretically you can have up to 90 seconds to build stacks before using plenary indulgence. And that's not to say you can't refresh it again once it's at 3 stacks.

[CaeliaCat]

It can already, timer resets every time they get a stack, so theoretically you can have up to 90 seconds to build stacks before using plenary indulgence. And that's not to say you can't refresh it again once it's at 3 stacks.

True, but I'm suggesting that the confession stacks last at least a minute.. so they could be refreshed up to 3 minutes before using plenary indulgence. I'd even go so far as to say that the confession stacks last indefinitely, until PI is used. Why should WHM need to worry about confession stacks falling off when AST gets a 900 potency AOE heal and Synastry on demand? Let the confession stacks stay on until a time of the WHM's choosing..

[Keridwyn]

As for confession stacks and plenary indulgence, the timer needs to be at least 1 minute if the objective is to be able to heal, say, two tanks during an add phase.

Again, just remove Confession and let PI use lilies instead.

[OcieKo]

Just leaving more feedback..

As others have pointed out, an increased proc rate from Cure II on lilies is nice, but ultimately does not address the disparity between WHM and AST/SCH.

My preference would be that WHM gets a comparable ability to Spread Arrow / Spread Balance / Change Stragem. Why doesn't WHM have Haste? or Reflect (to a limit)? Both AST and SCH bring so much utility and party wide damage support.

Pretty sure AST got a trait for Bene 1/2 that works with an OGCD, SCH got something similar as well, WHM is the only one complaining about it.
So you want something comparable to a 30% range mechanic over 2 CDs but without the RNG and 1 CD, or a CD that is affected by the stat choices of your teammates as to its effectiveness (most current #s test I saw on Chain Stratagem had it increase current attackers crit by a % not a flat number, thus any dps focusing speed, det, direct hit, some combination of those, or balanced would get vastly less out of it than someone cramming crit as much ad possinle. Are you serious about not liking RNG or is this some joke people are playing and I'm just behind on the meme?

[Risvertasashi]

Pretty sure AST got a trait for Bene 1/2 that works with an OGCD, SCH got something similar as well, WHM is the only one complaining about it.

Because neither of them rely on it. It's not a central mechanic, it's a mild nice-to-have bonus if it happens. Much like freecure.

lilies is just trash all around. If you really want me to go into the details on why I can, though I imagine most people are tired of hearing about it by now.