Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

I'll just ask this question again to SE;

Why did we not only lose Stoneskin I/II, but keep Repose? Wasn't the purpose of this pruning for removing lesser used skills and/or overly niche abilities? Repose sees extremely little use in PVE areas. The only place Repose saw good usage was in PVP, but with the separation of PVP and PVE abilities, Repose became even more useless! The only time I remember trying to use Repose is the 1st boss of Brayflox NM, and even then it only helps if people pay attention. Keeping Repose is just added insult to injury to White Mages.

Repose, and Sleep from BLM, should've been removed.

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Same thing happened to BRD and MCH with MP/TP restoration, though, and yet there really isn't much outcry about that. And then PLD also lost both Rampart, Conv, and Provoke, all powerful abilities, and no one bats an eye. It really does feel like people are just whining for special treatment...

That's because BRD, MCH and PLD all got interesting, and more importantly, useful new abilities in exchange for what they lost... WHM not only lost more abilities than any other job (and arguably some class defining ones at that) but gained nothing in exchange except RNG stacks and CD reduction (yet somehow still has Repose, and a now next to useless Fluid Aura).

Also, a bit off topic but...

Outside of savage raids TP / MP restore has always been optional, and in 4.0 there is also cross-role Goad and the new BLM mana batteries (patent pending).

Rampart I would agree is a bad choice, as it is basically mandatory (and interacts with one of PLDs new abilities?). Also, to me, it doesn't really fit the theme of WAR, and Shadowskin really could have had something more interesting done with it (combo with Dark Arts anyone?).

Convalescence; perfect choice for cross-role, as while it's certainly nice, it's nowhere near mandatory in most content.

Provoke… is an interesting one, as it's a nice backup (and long-range pull), but outside of tank swaps you really shouldn't need it. And speaking of tank swaps, with the new AoE Provoke and Enmity push (Shirk?) abilities, there are technically other options come 4.0.

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

3. Job skills

- White Mages have access to the fewest skills of all 3 healers:
WHM: Spells in List: 26....................Spells after consolidation: 22....................Bonus Spells/Abilities: 0.............Total Usable Abilities: 22
SCH: Spells in List: 30......................Spells after consolidation: 28....................Bonus Spells/Abilities: 8 (Faerie).Total Usable Abilities: 36
AST: Spells in List: 29......................Spells after Consolidation: 27...................Bonus Spells/Abilities: 8 (Cards).Total Usable Abilities: 33*
** We understand that AST cards are RNG oriented. This is why they are so powerful. This does not mean the WHM can't have access to weak abilities that are reliable and consistent to make up for situations when you have a WHM/AST or WHM/SCH.

Is it really too much to ask that you look at the list and say, "Hey, WHM has fewer skills than the other two healers, why don't we go back and fill out their lower level abilities and spells to pad out and fill gaps for abilities that we took from them?" How could something like this escape quality assessment especially in an expansion where the balance between us healers was supposed to be a focus?

- Why are Faeries/Cards considered in the above? Simple: Summoners have been begging since 2.X for more egis to summon and every time Square-Enix has replied no citing that ability numbers had to be similar across all jobs. I (yes, I the OP) just want to make sure they are holding themselves accountable to that statement.

I believe this should be a more accurate count:

WHM: Spells in List: 25....................Spells after consolidation: 21....................Bonus Spells/Abilities: 0.............Total Usable Abilities: 21
SCH: Spells in List: 26......................Spells after consolidation: 23....................Bonus Spells/Abilities: 8 (Faerie).Total Usable Abilities: 31
AST: Spells in List: 28......................Spells after Consolidation: 24...................Bonus Spells/Abilities: 8 (Cards).Total Usable Abilities: 32*

Here's the full spell lists:

WHM

1. Stone (Consolidated)
2. Cure
3. Aero (Consolidated)
4. Medica
5. Raise
6. Fluid Aura
7. Stone II (Consolidated)
8. Repose
9. Cure II
10. Cure III
11. Aero II
12. Medica II
13. Pressence of Mind
14. Regen
15. Holy
16. Benediction
17. Asylum
18. Stone III (Consolidated)
19. Assize
20. Aero III
21. Tetragammaton
22. Thin Air
23. Stone IV
24. Divine Benison
25. Plenary Indulgence

AST

1. Malefic (Consolidated)
2. Benefic
3. Combust (Consolidated)
4. Lightspeed
5. Helios
6. Ascend
7. Essential Dignity
8. Benefic II
9. Draw
10. Diurnal Sect
11. Undraw (Consolidated)
12. Aspected Benefic
13. Royal Road
14. Spread
15. Aspeted Helios
16. Redraw
17. Combust II
18. Nocturnal Sect
19. Synastry
20. Gravity
21. Malefic II (Consolidated)
22. Time Dilation
23. Collective Unconciousness
24. Celestial Opposition
25. Earthly Star
26. Malefic III
27. Minor Arcana
28. Sleeve Draw

SCH

1. Ruin (Consolidated)
2. Bio (Consolidated)
3. Summon
4. Physick
5. Aetherflow
6. Energy Drain
7. Miasma
8. Summon II
9. Resurrection
10. Bio II
11. Bane
12. Ruin II
13. Rouse
14. Shadow Flare
15. Adloquium
16. Succor
17. Sacred Soil
18. Lustrate
19. Indomitability
20. Broil (Consolidated)
21. Deployment Tactics
22. Emergency Tactics
23. Dissipation
24. Excogtanion
25. Broil II
26. Chain Strategem
27. Aetherpact (Removed and Included in the Pet Section)
28. Fey Union (Removed and Included in the Pet Section)

I still believe its a misnomer to include the card effects towards the AST ability count but it's up to you how you wish to present it. You can find my argument why in this post.

[edit]

Originally Posted by OcieKo

A few questions about it.
I get not including Lightspeed/Thin Air to an extent since using it could be considered extra. Lucid Dreaming would cancel out so moot.
Tho Lustrate and Assize are unusable without the MP recovery, so its harder to ignore that part of MP gain in the calculations. On the note of Lustrate, why 6 instead of 9? In a 3 min test it should end just before being able to use your 4th Aetherflow for uses 10-12. I'm running this under the assumption the test begins with the need to use Aetherflow to get 3 charges.

Excogitation consumes an aetherflow stack and has a 50 potency higher heal on 60s CD so it's better to use for overall healing effectiveness. I will include the extra 3 Lustrates though.

New Values:

D.AST
Total Potency: 57,442
HoT / oGCD Potency: 19,868
MP Consumed: 46,560

N.AST
Total Potency: 56,414
HoT / oGCD Potency: 8,500
MP Consumed: 46,560

SCH
Total Potency: 56,070
HoT / oGCD Potency: 22,220
MP Consumed: 54,000

WHM
Total Potency: 53,875
HoT / oGCD Potency: 21,155
MP Consumed: 40,560

The extra 3 Lustrates does push WHM down for the top contender on the passive healing front.


In terms of MP regen, I chose to ignore that for now since we don't know exactly how much MP they'll be regenerating. I don't believe ther's been any clips on how much MP / tick Lucid Dreaming gives back nor am I sure what the current MP pools are for SCH and WHM to calculate the MP recovery Assize and Aetherflow.

I do like you pointing it out is a good thing as it's difficult to depict exactly what the MP consumption for each healer is like but it remains an important talking point when dealing with each healer's effective MP pool.

[EDIT2]

Originally Posted by OcieKo

Since its a single target test, how are you calculating confession stacks per use of Plenary Indulgence?

I just went under the assumption that the tank will always have one confession stack. When you're curing as often as this simulates it's not hard to think that the probability will occur that the tank will get one stack every 20 seconds. It's a bit of a conservative estimate but you'll generally want to spend PI as soon as the opportunity presents itself as each additional stack only gives another 100 potency compared to the 400 initial potency. PI is going to be a hard ability to judge overall because as fights get easier and easier due to gear, the WHM will generate less and less confession stacks as there is just less to heal.

Originally Posted by OcieKo

Assuming as such, but anyways, was Dissipation ignored in favor of embrace count? (practically speaking probably a better idea for a SCH, to keep the faerie over the healing boost)

Yes, Dissipation is ignored for Embrace. It's hard to gauge if Dissipation will come into play for SCH in 4.0 until we see how the Fairy Gauge interacts with summons. The lower potency on Embrace will mean a larger reliance on Fey Union to make up the lost potency. Dissipation being able to generate more stacks will affect that. Additionally, if resummong a fairy will precharge the gauge it'll also be in the SCH's interest to re-summon the fairy often for higher spikes heals, though this will generally cost them both MP and Switftcast. Dissipation will also help with this since you're at least making some use of the fairy sacrifice though depending on the fight it might not be worth the loss of the Fairy.

If anything the lower Embrace potency will mean Dissipation is slightly more palatable since 3x Lustrate will definitely out heal the loss of the Fairy for that duration.