Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Saigo]

@magnanimousCynic

Assize is. And that make diffrence in the global change of WHM you can't just says lillies sucks you need to consider every new tool you've.

Same.

Yeah it have in impact on how you actually heal in many ways

Yeah having the greatest AOE potency, the best HOT out there and many powerfull game changer don't change anything in a party comparing to other heals x)

Assumption ? Don't think so that's just stats and some insight

Creator oh yeah such a difficult fight x')

Are you even trying to understand the point or you're just messing around -have a pretty clear idea about it tho-

Anyway that was a pretty beautifful waste of time here not like I'm gonna change anything about this communoty x)

[javid]

Here is an example with a WHM/AST combo, in which the WHM does just over 60% of the healing:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/dp7H6...f=1&source=129

The whm in this log has 8 casts of med2 and 8 casts of regen totaling 16 casts.
In the same log, the whm casts cure 6 times and cure2 4 times totaling 10 casts.

My point here is NOT that med2 and regen are more important than cure and cure2, my point is that it's easy to find logs to support almost any position.
Why do I say it's easy? Because I only looked at one person's logs for these: Yours.

no you tried very hard to find an texample like this one; and notice the significant over healing done in this fight.... upwards of 42% over heal on all the gcds; bc the whm couldnt trust the AST to main heal; this wasn't an issue of whm attempting to main heal. And you look at one persons log, mine to fine one example... which proves you had to sift thru my parses to find one that supports your claim... while I only listed 3 I was able to link several more readily accessible demonstrating my suggested point....

And all these "EXAMPLES" are echo 10-15% fights.... when I only used non echo parses. And you picked one of lowest Fight HPS (which is fine under non echo but one of the lowest + 15% echo....and somehow you're convinced any view can be made from the majority of parses?) Instead of trying to troll... why just open logs NON-ECHO and just go down the page; skipping nothing but the ones with Sch OH and see if your holes stands....


https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/13#b...teMage&page=23

Here is a link list filled with the examples I was making.....but I guess all these are cherry picking???

[Maltothoris]

Correction the lilies to Assize, no. Sure it sounds great having it be on a lower cd but the thing is you're wasting gcds to get them. It's ultimately a dps loss. Lets say you do use 15 of them to get the three lilies (at best) and you do get an extra assize, hooray thats 300 extra aoe potency. However, lets say that during that period only 2 -3 of them were actually needed and a regen could cover them. Only only 4 healing gcds were needed, and you use the rest on stone 4. 260x11 is 2860. Now look at that extra 300 and you see that you will about 2500 potency about trying to make use of the lilies.

Edit incoming.

Like other people have said, the lily system is not engaging. It is not fun. Mr happy and other people who were on the media tour were not impressed by it. Hell, evem the japanese players aren't happy with lilies, though it wasn't such an uproar as it is over here. So we will most likely be seeing changes(though probably not major changes before 4.1-4.2).

Next the WHM did lose abilities and does have less than SCH or AST even not counting the cards or pets. It at 24(stlll fluid aura and repose are there so it would be 26 but unless SB has stuff that can be sleep or knockback and it's advantage to the party, they're not going on the hotbar) AST has 29 and SCH has 30. If you need proof, here's a flipchart. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...oQ0/edit#gid=0

Before we get too ahead, let's remember theres still 1-2 weeks before early access and release. Some of these numbers may change however, I don't that it would be much.

[Sstromquist]

The lily system for Whm should be revamped. The idea of using cure to proc rng lilies does not reflect the best way to play the job from a raiding perspective. In the most optimized setting, whms and Astros using Diurnal sect will rely on regen from both solo regen and their aoe regen spells and the scholar's auto heals from Embrace to keep the tank topped. If they ever manually heal, it's to use cure 2 or benefic 2 rarely. To go out of their way to cast inefficient heals to proc their lilies does not reflect how to play the job effectively.

From a supportive role, this system will help Whm function in a raid scenario. The lilies proc based on regen crits. If your regen (not medica 2) ticks crit, you have a 30% chance to proc a lily. Every lily can be used to increase the attack speed of all nearby party members and yourself. The effect stacks the more lilies you have. 2% for one lily, 5% for two lilies, 10% for 3 lilies. The duration would be 20-30sec. Basically, an aoe arrow.

[Sstromquist]

To add to this, with the addition of bard's permanent 2% crit buff for all party members, as well as scholar's 20%, battle litany giving 15% crit, and monk's relying on party members to crit to build chakra stacks, now more than ever, crit will play a dominant role in all substat builds. This lily system will let whm's stack crit for a purpose, to increase their own damage and healing, as well as support the party.

[Teykos]

He said like Lustrate in the sense it eats Aetherflow with no real cooldown. Not that we should get Lustrate wholesale.

Basically triple Stoneskin with no cooldown.

This is pretty much what I meant, yes. (Hence the comment about making it only eat one lily.) Point is that the mechanic sounds like they want Cure/Cure II to be used more when the current viewpoint is to use them less. So instead of fighting against it, why not just have a big enough carrot? GCD Reduction sucks as a temporary buff, but my original thought and intent of my suggestion was, what if you could keep it going long enough to actually account for it in how frequently you use your oGCD stuff?

An alternative suggestion would be, what if you added it dropping the cast time of your spells, like Lightspeed. So 20% GCD reduction at 3 lilies also translates to 2 seconds cast time reduction.

So to summarize the thoughts (since some of the comments were only tunneling on one line):

- Make Divine Benison a Stoneskin version of Lustrate (in that it eats one lily instead of all of them)
- Don't make the other oGCD stuff eat any lilies.
- Make the lilies last a minute if not refreshed.
- Let the lilies affect both cast speed (significantly) AND GCD, so you can spam more Holy/Stone 4.

As a result of the above, keep the crappy proc rate.

[Licicic]

I'd like to contribute my own suggestions to improve WHM for stormblood. Replacing random chance procs with procs that trigger once a total amount of healing potency has been done to allies would make them predictable and easier to plan a fight around. Instead of reducing the cooldown of oGCD spells, a system that buffed potency of gave the WHM some other form of buff would have a greater impact on fights. Remaking the lily system to proc off of total healing potency done to allies to give access to unique abilities and spells that cost varying amounts of lilies would feel more rewarding and breathe life into the healer aspect of the job. Giving WHM a more unique form of mitigation, such as but not specifically a defensive buff to allies, would give it something to make the job more in line with the other healers without deviating from the pure healer theme. I enjoy the WHM job and hope for continued adjustments as Stormblood release approaches.

[Hustensaft]

People are discussing the Stormblood abilities and all other kind of problems, but if you want to discuss WHM, you should start at the beginning, i.e. the base toolkit of WHM.

You have the three Cure Spells: Cure, Cure II and Cure III (AoE).
You have the two Medica Spells: Medica (AoE) and Medica II (AoE HoT).
You have a HoT Spell: Regen.

Which of these spells are redundant?

Cure III: Medica and Medica II provide more than enough AoE healing, if necessary Assize and Assylum complement it.
Cure I/II: Regen is far more efficient than Cure I, Medica II is up for a fairly high amount of time, if AoE is going out, you priorize Medica, if you need big single-target heals, Benediction and Tetragrammaton take priority.

Now come the Stormblood Abilities: Lilies and Confession, that are majorly based around Cure I and Cure II, probably to make WHM actually use their Iconic spells.
Just that Medica, Medica II and Regen still vastly outperform all the Cure Spells - and suddenly you have a giant mess of abilities in Stormblood.

The simplest way to fix it would be the radical one: Remove Medica and Medica II.
Then, continue with something like:
- Regen is limited to one target, but can proc Lilies
- Cure III can also proc Lilies.
- Lilies proc far more conistent due to regen/casting cures.
- AoE Heal will be handled by Cure III, Assize, Asylum and Confession. (this is still 4 AoE healing abilities, with Lilies actually being more readily available)
- maybe Add some sort of group damage support based around Lilies Consumption (trade healing vs. group damage)

AST then could become a HoT Healer (i.e. Remove Shields from AST), while WHM focues on big direct heal to get the group up.

[Vaelin]

The simplest way to fix it would be the radical one: Remove Medica and Medica II.

Please no.

[Hustensaft]

Please no.

I'd like your arguments for that.