The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Ghishlain]

I don't understand why the insistence on twisting the word or meaning of what the OP has written or what the thread is about. All that is being asked if lend a hand if you can. What is so wrong about that?

Instead of empathy, we see all sorts of disses directed at the OP and newer players. That is addition to the ever preset clears and this gives the impression that newer players and newbie are being treated with contempt and disdain all the while taking there gil like the McDonald's happy meal bandit.

Sure being proactive help, but it only goes so far because none of this stuff is easy. The OP has been proactive, has been trying, did a lot of waiting, and had a lot of frustration. The OP nor players like the OP is asking to be spoonfed. We are asking that people do NOT go out of their way to deliberately make things harder. And little empathy on the forums goes a long way, instead of all the dismissive missives and name calling.

Additionally being proactive goes beyond just clearing content. We should be proactive about building the community that is more inclusive and more accepting of all players. This helps the game and help everyone, because this is enlightened self interest. The more people that clear the gated contented the more people that can be available to tackle the next/new gated content.

You ask for empathy yet you can't empathize with the people clearing the content and the fact not all of them have the time in the world. It doesn't help that your argument is falling upon deaf ears because of the fact you insist on equating all those "unhelpful clear people" = "people selling run after run to line their pockets with Gil". For someone speaking about the proactivity of building the community, broadly generalizing ALL raiders as clear sellers certainly doesn't help your argument about building a greater community by falsely vilifying every single raiders and content clearers and also showing great contempt for them. If you want empathy, you should learn to empathize as well.

Just for the record, I'm a casual raider at heart. I work a full time job that has recently seen me work 24 days out of a full four weeks. I am also the leader and organizer for my static. We didn't begin the static until a few weeks after 2.3s launch and from there I had myself, two other people from my FC, and two others who were maybe's. That's grown into a full five man static within my FC and three "PUGs" I picked up while sifting through players on our weekly clears. I've gone through at least four different BRDs and I didn't even touch T9 until we had a stable BRD position. For the first several weeks, I had to balance everyone's schedule to suit our raiding times as people had various real life commitments in the evenings at times, myself included. During our T9 practices, I was worked 22 days in a row, causing more complications for me to set up our static as I had to spend time during the week to ensure everyone was available at X day and Y time.

We cleared T9 half a week before 2.4 came out and it was the most exhilarating pleasure ever to behold in my MMO career.

My time is now spent gearing myself and my allies up for T10 and onwards, as we still have quite a bit of catch up to do. I still am busy organizing and doing my real life commitments, and I don't have time in my gaming schedule to help out new players because I just do not have the time. While helping the community out by helping random strangers is commendable, I unfortunately don't have the time for that. If you're going to vilify me for saying that, then I take great offense to your argument as a whole.

So! Let's be real here:

-There's a group of players who will never be competent enough to clear Coil effectively (you can see that on how limiting some players are in Syrcus Tower).
-There's a group of player who will never be able to join a static because of their erratic real life commitments. I can sympathize for this sect of players.
-Casual's doesn't necessarily mean bad. It just means their time frames are limited and players will need to work around these constraints to be successful.
-Raiders and players who clear content DOES NOT mean they are selling runs
-Not all players have the time to assist other players for the betterment of the community
-Players wanting to clear content will need to work on building their network and finding like players to suit their time frames and have the competency to clear content.
-Perseverance, perseverance, perseverance

Adding to the final point, if you are friendly and network well, you'll be able to find a group that suits your style. Don't be afraid to join groups, even if it's an epic failure. If you find one of those other seven players capable, you have now added one more person to your list as a potential static. Grow your network, and in turn they can help you grow. Currently I'm in the process of replacing my BRD (yes, again), and right now I'm testing a BRD who was a friend of a friend to see if we can get our dynamic to work. It's frustrating, but you can't let it discourage you.

[NyarukoW]

...
"We are asking that people do NOT go out of their way to deliberately make things harder."
Who's deliberately making things harder? That 1 post from like 10 pages ago that says to come buy his runs? Who exactly is deliberately making newbies life harder?
...

There shouldn't even be a single shameless clear seller that come to forum to taunt others. But the fact remains, while the learning party get stuck waiting on the PF, there is obviously clear sellers with more than enough time sitting and waiting on the PF advertising their clear sell. They certainly can help and they certainly will not. That is the most obvious case. But you have people asking the "no newbies wanted" checkbox for the DF and PF. Thankfully SE is smart enough not to fall for that trap. And then there is the endless verbal abuse hurled at the newer players and newbies. All of this is done deliberately, because by default they can do nothing, but they choose to do even less than nothing.

.. broadly generalizing ALL raiders as clear sellers ...

I do NOT equate raiders as clear sellers ever. You can search this thread or any other and see that I've always been very clear on that. Yet the clear sellers come here and muddle the discussion and pretend to wear the wool of the raiders. I've got nothing against the raiders, only those want to play devil's advocate for the clear sellers, and those that promote an attitude indifference, apathy, or being deliberately dismissive of the problem the OP is presenting.

[Zumi]

Yoshi P said himself at one of the fanfest panels that one of the challenges in doing endgame raids is putting together a team that can work together. Thus those raids drop better loot then 4 mans which they don't want to be harder.

If you want to do the hardest content in a MMO you will have to put a team together there really isn't much way around this. If not then you can do the easier content or wait until the nerf/echo come into play. Don't expect to beat the hardest content in any mmo with just randoms, game designers don't do this because then the game is way too easy for the organized group.

[Noxifer]

2 - Tanks are so rare to find, even more than in other games, enough so that they misteriously NEVER need to resort to PF to do content. That being said, a learning party for T6 will most likely NEVER, EVER, EVER find a tank that actually needs to learn the fight. If you tell me you know a tank that never cleared T6, I'll think you're lying.

*coughs* Ehrm... *raises hand* Maining Tank, secondaring (totally a word. at least it is now.) Healer. Haven't gotten through T5 yet. Not for lack of trying, though. Gotten to dreadknight phase fairly consistently -- depending on the other players in the group, naturally. The main obstacle in my path is finding enough players for regular practice, even if it's just once a week or even once every other week, so we have to fill up with random people. Have the benefit of having one FC member well experienced in SCoB, but the rest of us are still beating our heads against that T5 wall ^^;

And yes, the frustration of not getting to the next bit is really annoying, but I will. One day. ¬_¬

[Zarzak]

That is SE being smart. They know that people have limited time and limited patience. Because as it stand too many players can't farm SCoB to start with because they couldn't get a static before 2.4. Heck even with statics, I know a static that been trying for at least the past 2 months and they still have NOT 1-shot T6 and only get the accidental T6 clears or die at 1% over and over. People need a way to move forward, and getting them stuck in catch-22, no static to farm SCoB, and must have cleared SCoB to be in a static. The breakthrough for the catch-22 can be possible by people being more inclusive.

I really don't think you're listening to yourself here.

Do you think any group is going to even CONSIDER someone who says "hey I'm in full poetic but can't beat turn 1" for a turn 10-13 group? FK NO.

The only thing making it part of progression would do is have skilled players willing to do it with you.

[NyarukoW]

...
Do you think any group is going to even CONSIDER someone who says "hey I'm in full poetic but can't beat turn 1" for a turn 10-13 group? ...

It is NOT they can NOT, but rather they haven't had the reps to learn it and actually clear it. The fact that they have NOT yet, does NOT preclude them from doing so in the future. Give people the benefit of the doubt. That is being inclusive. BTW nobody is in full poetics yet, nor does gear level ever equate to skill level.

[RickXRolled]

It is NOT they can NOT, but rather they haven't had the reps to learn it and actually clear it. The fact that they have NOT yet, does NOT preclude them from doing so in the future. Give people the benefit of the doubt. That is being inclusive. BTW nobody is in full poetics yet, nor does gear level ever equate to skill level.

As Dr. Phil once said, never give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

[Risvertasashi]

As Dr. Phil once said, never give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

And thus we have the current endgame raiding scene. Must be geared, fast learner, be exactly on the turn we're on or further along, etc etc...

[Aana]

And thus we have the current endgame raiding scene. Must be geared, fast learner, be exactly on the turn we're on or further along, etc etc...

So what exactly is a raid group starting on say t10 right now supposed to do with a member that is under geared and not a fast learner exactly? Continue to fail gear checks (tank under geared dying, dps failing dps checks etc). Sit around wiping to the 1st mechanic for 3 weeks because they are a slow learner? If you are undergeared, you can fix that you self by farming up gear. If you are a slow learner there's nothing anyone but you can do about it. What exactly are you expecting the raid community to do about personal problems like this?

[Dwill]

And thus we have the current endgame raiding scene. Must be geared, fast learner, be exactly on the turn we're on or further along, etc etc...

Time is precious and nobody likes having their time wasted. That means that if I want a quick clear or someone to progress with, I'll choose the geared person that understand mechanics quick enough over the undergeared person who needs to dies to every mechanics 10+ times. Do you think people could have cleared T8 with undergeared DPS when the encounter has a very tight DPS check to meet ? Or tanks with ~6,000 HP getting destroyed by Nael on T9 ?

Snip

Ghislain made a lot of other valid points, why don't you try to answer to those ?