The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[NyarukoW]

Honestly I'm not wanting anything out of it really.. I actually enjoy a lot of the fights. But I'm NOT going to go in and watch someone fail to move out of a landslide OVER. AND OVER. AND OVER. AND OVER. AND OVER....

And no one is asking you do to that. Do what you feel comfortable with. But if it is one too many wipes, it is perfectly fine to leave or vote abandon. Just DO not rage quit and cuss everyone else out on the way out. It is really not that hard to do. Sometimes people just need the reps to learn that, and some need more reps than others. Even if I already cleared and I have all the drops I wanted, I thank everyone for their help for practice even if we don't clear and I encourage everyone to keep at it.

... That is Square's fk up. They make it so anyone who isn't on the end of progression is better off going to their dungeons, getting the <insert top tier currency here> and buying gear off a merchant. Instead of going and farming coil 1-9....

That is SE being smart. They know that people have limited time and limited patience. Because as it stand too many players can't farm SCoB to start with because they couldn't get a static before 2.4. Heck even with statics, I know a static that been trying for at least the past 2 months and they still have NOT 1-shot T6 and only get the accidental T6 clears or die at 1% over and over. People need a way to move forward, and getting them stuck in catch-22, no static to farm SCoB, and must have cleared SCoB to be in a static. The breakthrough for the catch-22 can be possible by people being more inclusive.

[Zarzak]

That is SE being smart. They know that people have limited time and limited patience. Because as it stand too many players can't farm SCoB to start with because they couldn't get a static before 2.4. Heck even with statics, I know a static that been trying for at least the past 2 months and they still have NOT 1-shot T6 and only get the accidental T6 clears or die at 1% over and over. People need a way to move forward, and getting them stuck in catch-22, no static to farm SCoB, and must have cleared SCoB to be in a static. The breakthrough for the catch-22 can be possible by people being more inclusive.

I really don't think you're listening to yourself here.

Do you think any group is going to even CONSIDER someone who says "hey I'm in full poetic but can't beat turn 1" for a turn 10-13 group? FK NO.

The only thing making it part of progression would do is have skilled players willing to do it with you.

[NyarukoW]

...
Do you think any group is going to even CONSIDER someone who says "hey I'm in full poetic but can't beat turn 1" for a turn 10-13 group? ...

It is NOT they can NOT, but rather they haven't had the reps to learn it and actually clear it. The fact that they have NOT yet, does NOT preclude them from doing so in the future. Give people the benefit of the doubt. That is being inclusive. BTW nobody is in full poetics yet, nor does gear level ever equate to skill level.

[Aana]

Empathy or no the information has been reiterated. There is also a fine line between "asking to lend a hand if you can" (which tons of people stated in this very thread that they already do anyway) and the expectation that people help you on principle. A line that has been jumped back and forth over repeatedly whenever it's convenient.

"We are asking that people do NOT go out of their way to deliberately make things harder."
Who's deliberately making things harder? That 1 post from like 10 pages ago that says to come buy his runs? Who exactly is deliberately making newbies life harder?

It doesn't change the fact that every single successful raider to ever walk the earth was a newbie once and found a way via the tried and true conventional methods described ad nauseum on this forum. Why is telling others to do the same bad? We aren't telling people to do things we ourselves haven't done, yet this is not a satisfactory answer. I do not understand why this isn't good enough when it has been for every successful endgame player as long as MMOs have existed.

[NyarukoW]

...
"We are asking that people do NOT go out of their way to deliberately make things harder."
Who's deliberately making things harder? That 1 post from like 10 pages ago that says to come buy his runs? Who exactly is deliberately making newbies life harder?
...

There shouldn't even be a single shameless clear seller that come to forum to taunt others. But the fact remains, while the learning party get stuck waiting on the PF, there is obviously clear sellers with more than enough time sitting and waiting on the PF advertising their clear sell. They certainly can help and they certainly will not. That is the most obvious case. But you have people asking the "no newbies wanted" checkbox for the DF and PF. Thankfully SE is smart enough not to fall for that trap. And then there is the endless verbal abuse hurled at the newer players and newbies. All of this is done deliberately, because by default they can do nothing, but they choose to do even less than nothing.

.. broadly generalizing ALL raiders as clear sellers ...

I do NOT equate raiders as clear sellers ever. You can search this thread or any other and see that I've always been very clear on that. Yet the clear sellers come here and muddle the discussion and pretend to wear the wool of the raiders. I've got nothing against the raiders, only those want to play devil's advocate for the clear sellers, and those that promote an attitude indifference, apathy, or being deliberately dismissive of the problem the OP is presenting.

[Zumi]

Yoshi P said himself at one of the fanfest panels that one of the challenges in doing endgame raids is putting together a team that can work together. Thus those raids drop better loot then 4 mans which they don't want to be harder.

If you want to do the hardest content in a MMO you will have to put a team together there really isn't much way around this. If not then you can do the easier content or wait until the nerf/echo come into play. Don't expect to beat the hardest content in any mmo with just randoms, game designers don't do this because then the game is way too easy for the organized group.

[polyhedral]

Yes, continue to not help out those who are coming back from 1.0 just now. I'm sure that will increase your numbers in 3.0 when you, and 2 others in your FC are the only ones doing the latest gated content. And lord hope not one single person who has passed the gated content dare leave the game, then you'd have to help others on your server, or play with yourself, which I'm sure most of you are really good at by now.

Now, go eat your ego. Swallow it whole.

[Aana]

Not being geared up is no ones fault but your own. You can be 110 without ever attempting t1. The hardest part of 110 is stumbling through st for a tomestone. If you aren't keeping up with tomes (poetic included) that is your own problem. If you are undergeared that's on you. No one else. Period.

If you legitimately don't have time to cap tomes each week, then reality check: you don't have time to raid either. There goes the geared up argument. Gear is a bare minimum prereq.

If you aren't 110 yet, then what the heck have you been doing since 2.3 sand and oil-palooza exactly?

If you just started and are i55, then go gear up and learn your job in the process. When you catch up, holla atcha boy. Help those that help themselves. Show up in max tome gear and take your own time to research and practice your job and demonstrate some level of mastery of it and then come chat.

When you have done all you can to help yourself then ask for help from others. Aka: show some initiative. Or stare at your empty party finder for the next 4 hrs. That works too I guess

[NyarukoW]

.... Aka: show some initiative. Or stare at your empty party finder for the next 4 hrs...

And practical terms that means what exactly? People like the OP has tried many different things and have shown initiative more that a few times. Don't be dismissive of the effort that OP has put in.

You can put stuff on the PF, you can join other peoples PF assuming they don't put the "no newbies wanted" comment, or you can shout in Mor Dhona and get ignored just as much as on the PF. You can try convincing your FC to try some to commit time, but most of them are afraid of T5. Invite people to your LS, and get stuck waiting for tanks and healers on the PF together. What else you got in your bag of tricks for showing initiative? Showing initiative doesn't magically solve the networking problem when the people that have experience deliberate choose to exclude everyone else.

That is why I will continue to advocate for people to be more open and more accepting of the newer players. Don't give me the BS about how people are not trying or just want to be spoonfed. That is so far from the truth, when the majority of players are looking to clear stuff and carry their own weight. They just need the opportunity and practice time to go thru the reps and clear the stuff.

---------

.
Ghislain made a lot of other valid points, why don't you try to answer to those ?

I don't need to comment on captain obvious statements like not all raiders are clear sellers. Which I've said so myself. The rest is all stuff like that. Obvious and unhelpful for the OP.

[Tiggy]

And practical terms that means what exactly?

As people have mentioned a dozen times. Go out and make friends that can help and learn with you to get it done. Network. Get into linkshells with similarly minded players tackling similar content. Do not in any circumstances expect people to come to you. You must go and meet people, and above all try to get to know them a little. This is an MMO. You're personal success is largely contingent on the support network you build.