The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content

[Exstal]

Does raiding make you part of an oppressed group? Do we need to start a #raidergate tag?
.

You'd actually have to call it #RaiderForCasual

[DoctorPepper]

I'm kinda lost... what do the flair story means? what is flair? Lol.

It's from the movie office space, it's a bit old now but definitely worth the watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-74Jo85ji9Q

Personally, I'm now confused as to why there is anything wrong with hating raiders. Does raiding make you part of an oppressed group? Do we need to start a #raidergate tag?

It's the generalization that all raiders are the same rude, obnoxious people that bothers people. If you want to use that type of argument then people could easily flip it around and ask what's wrong with hating new players who don't know the mechanics of the fight. Same shit, different side of the coin.

[Krr]

It's the generalization that all raiders are the same rude, obnoxious people that bothers people. If you want to use that type of argument then people could easily flip it around and ask what's wrong with hating new players who don't know the mechanics of the fight. Same shit, different side of the coin.

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

[Dwill]

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

Maybe not ALL of them, but the vast majority... well... they are.

And on what data do you based these assumptions upon ? Anecdotal evidences and forum people cherry picking their experiences ? If so, then your statements are worthless and you're both just doing a generalization which makes you worse than these people you seem to dislike.

[Aana]

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

Protip: good raiders aren't making pfs. The shit you see in PF is usually wannabes that think they are hot stuff but got kicked out of their groups for being terrible. Otherwise those 'farming' pfs wouldn't wipe for hours if they were actually good raiders.

Good raiders don't make groups in pf. This is why casuals don't get what we have said 1000 times. PF is not the way raiding works. Good raiders are pulling from their network they build to create groups and find people. Not broadcasting in df shouts and pf. All these ideas you get about the raiding community from PF comments like no newbs and clear sells are NOT representative of raiders because we don't use those to raid. Network. Connect. Stop relying on PF and make friends. When I make a primal run I go through my fc, ls, and friend list. I don't make a stupid pf. You don't see what real Raiders are doing because it's silent. Stop reading pf lines and judging an entire community based on it.

[NyarukoW]

Protip: good raiders aren't making pfs. The shit you see in PF is usually wannabes that think they are hot stuff but got kicked out of their groups for being terrible. Otherwise those 'farming' pfs wouldn't wipe for hours if they were actually good raiders...

Yet those people treat newer players like they have ebola and want a "no newbies allowed" checkbox.

Network. Connect...
You don't see what real Raiders are doing because it's silent.

Well isn't that a funny one. How do you network and connect with people who are silent? How do you break into that secret of club so silent gestures and hidden signals? I suppose it is a secret society that is not likely to accept newcomers, i.e. exclusive.

[AlexionSkylark]

all raiders are the same rude, obnoxious people.

Maybe not ALL of them, but the vast majority... well... they are.

[DoctorPepper]

The only generalization I've seen is that raiders are unhelpful and exclusory. Which is true. Open up your local PF and get a wake-up call as to what "Raiding" is like outside of your small FC group.

Maybe not ALL of them, but the vast majority... well... they are.

These are the types of generalizations I'm talking about. Just because you guys don't see experienced raiders joining/making learning groups shouldn't flag them as unhelpful, exclusory, rude, or obnoxious. While I'll admit there are a lot of rude raiders, there are also a lot of rude non-raiders. There are also a lot of players in this game that try to leech content off of other players without learning it themselves. I've joined a lot party finder groups where people claim to be experienced (sometimes even the party leader) only to find out they have no idea what they are doing and just want the other people to carry them through it. Often it doesn't really bother me but I can understand why that would bother other people, some people only have a limited amount of time to play and want to spend their time experiencing things they haven't done yet. That doesn't give them any good reason to be rude however.

That being said, the best place to find help really is an FC. My FC has helped numerous people clear turn 5, extreme primals, etc. but we really don't go out of our way to help people we don't know who we will likely never speak to again. Most of the time, in my opinion, friends/FC are a lot more grateful for your help than the random people using party finder, it's like being in a family. Most of the time you get the kill in a party finder group and then never see/hear from those people again.

The fact is, neither of you know enough raiders to make the claim that all or even the majority of them are bad people. Your entire generalization is based off of the party finder and random people in DF groups which is only a small fraction of the people who play this game.

[Krr]

The fact is, neither of you know enough raiders to make the claim that all or even the majority of them are bad people. Your entire generalization is based off of the party finder and random people in DF groups which is only a small fraction of the people who play this game.

Except I have personal experience (over 3-4 years) with people who identify themselves as 'HC Raiders', personal experience in this game looking for FCs and statics before finally founding my own group, and personal experience reading and hearing what my friends who still do HC-level raiding have to say about the scene. There are problems with how we organize raids, problems with what we demand to see in our games ('to help promote the health of raiding'), and there are problems with the mindset with which we approach pick-up players.

Does that make a statement on every single raider as an individual? Hell naw. But it makes a statement on the social norms that at this point, are pretty much baked into raiding, which become an issue when the majority of players who reach 50 only have HC raiding as their main skill-based activity.

[Vynny]

So your argument is that raiders are selfish inconsiderate people because after spending hours and hours of their own time learning a fight with their group they do not put up learning groups in pf and teach the casuals how to do the fight, but instead sell runs to people (who are most likely gil buyers) instead of teaching them how to actually do the fight. My question is, isn't it selfish of the casual players to expect the raiders to walk the casuals through the fights solely at the expense of the raiders time?