It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

[Kaelah]

Thats what I meant. The story in coil is pretty epic and integral to the narrative of "a realm reborn". In truth, its SE's fault for locking it behind end game raid content. But here we are. I worked extra hard to get 2nd coil cleared, but I'd hate for someone not to be able to experience this story organically in game because they can't join a static, or find 7 other competent players to get it cleared.


In the future, I'd like to see more raids that have side stories, a la CT, and not an important part of the main story. Also, future raids shouldn't be connected to each other, or require you to clear one to access the other. Of course.. thats a debate for a whole new thread...

See, he gets it. I like you. :3
I'd love to be in a Coil static. I used to be up to T4 and it was great. I just cannot commit to set times anymore.

[BreathlessTao]

Do you know what we did back then? We either grinded to be overleveled (Let's say this would be akin to echo) or you bashed your head against the wall until you beat it.
What is the difference here, really? Why is the fact this is an MMO so different to what we did in the other games?

Thank you. Finally also coming from someone else that we could have fun and play games without YT years ago. As for the second question, the difference is that we're talking about content here that does not require one person to be skilled enough, but seven other as well. I can be doubly overgeared and know all the patterns perfectly enough never to miss anything, there's no guarantee the other seven will be like that too.

[Moqi]

snip

I honestly can't recall any big storyline related to secret/optional bosses in other FFs. The FFXIII trilogy certanly had none, XII harderst bosses were hunts, FFX's Zoolab didn't have a storyline either... maybe FFX-2 with Trema, although I have personally never fought him so I don't know how much storyline is there. And the Cups have some silly storylines for the monsters but they're hardly as important as what happened to Eorzea's biggest threat. Did FFVII's weapons have any stroyline to them?

[Kuwagami]

Babby's first debate, "If I attack a mistake they may have done, instead of their actual point, I will come off being the better!"

Class act.

are you even trying ? prove your claims and come back or please do not come to troll any longer.

I find it ironic that you chose to target him with this reply, despite the person he was replying to is doing the exact same thing. They were posting statistic far before he did in the thread, but sure, let's attack only Hali because he's the one who's not on your side, right? Not like the only reason he posted that was because of replies like this:

I've chosen that comment because it's a huge flaw in the point they may ever attempt to prove. Which was already raised by the quoted comment : numbers thrown out of nowhere, with nothing to back them up (72% of the statistics on the internet are purely made up right ?)

Please, do not assume this is how we are. I have posted twice now, with reason on why this is a bad thing, how it affects everyone by allowing people to get by without learning, continuing their cycle of constantly begging for handouts. Go and read them before using this sort of reply again.
This is nothing to do with loot.
This is nothing to do with preventing people from accessing content.
This has everything to do with preventing the perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled.

I do not see how offering a story version of irrelevant content is contributing to the "perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled". People who aren't doing coil now because they gave it up won't magically come back because you give them a new raid locked behind it. They might come back however if you actually give them the possibility to enjoy the story behind the content, while more dedicated players get the loot and honor or whatever.
"Might" being better than "won't" in my vocabulary, I fail to see your point considering how Yoshi-P wants many people to enjoy the coil.

I don't buy it, not one bit.
How can you claim to be a fan of previous FF titles when the previous games have had tons of difficult bosses, which, by the way, gate storyline progress just as much as coil does. Secret bosses, even some of the final bosses or mid-point bosses have been very, very difficult walls. Do you know what we did back then? We either grinded to be overleveled (Let's say this would be akin to echo) or you bashed your head against the wall until you beat it.
What is the difference here, really? Why is the fact this is an MMO so different to what we did in the other games?

you forgot major points in your argument :

=> solo games vs MMOs. The mechanics are totally different
=> oldies were turned based. Wat easier to prepare/recover than active battles
=> overlevelling content in solo FF generally equals to doubling your power compared to what is needed. Especially with the exponential stats.

=> for your other point, please tell me when major stuff was locked behind optional bosses in FF series ?
There was no side story in FF1, nor in FF2, nor in FF6, 7 (the weapons have no story just fights), FFX has none at all ("oh you're a badie, dark aeon" is not a story worth telling), and FFxii only side bosses were hunts and Aeons, which had close to no story behind them except for the contract itself.

Can't say for sure for FF3 to FF5, but I don't remember any.

[Taruinatho]

I can be doubly overgeared and know all the patterns perfectly enough never to miss anything, there's no guarantee the other seven will be like that too.

If the other seven members can't catch on within a reasonable amonut of time, you have a few choices with this being an MMO:

a) Seek out people who are on your skill and dedication level to clearing new content.
b) Wait till your group overgears the content to a point where poor execution doesn't matter.
c) Watch youtube.
d) Cry about it on the official forums.

[Ecks007]

Thank you. Finally also coming from someone else that we could have fun and play games without YT years ago. As for the second question, the difference is that we're talking about content here that does not require one person to be skilled enough, but seven other as well. I can be doubly overgeared and know all the patterns perfectly enough never to miss anything, there's no guarantee the other seven will be like that too.

Yes, this. So much this.

This is part of the rambling in one of my posts I just ended up deleting. Why 98% of the time using the Duty Finder to clear T5 is a waste of time. There are 7 other completely unknown variables and unless you know for sure they are all on the same page as yourself, assuming you are decent enough to do your part in the fight with minimal errors, then it's not really worth the frustration, time or effort if all it takes is 1-2 of those 7 players to make you fail because they aren't prepared.

[Moomba33]

I don't buy it, not one bit. ect

Mind naming a few?
I've beaten remakes of I-VI and normal versions of VII-XIII excluding XI. III DS was the only one I would say was hard overall.
For all of them if I couldn't beat a superboss there was a foolproof strategy online that required very little in terms of execution pull off. IX's Ozma is probably the only superboss I couldn't reliably beat every time thanks to the nasty combinations you can get from Curse.

[saeedaisspecial]

I do not see how offering a story version of irrelevant content is contributing to the "perpetuation of dumbing down the game and keeping the player base ignorant and unskilled". People who aren't doing coil now because they gave it up won't magically come back because you give them a new raid locked behind it. They might come back however if you actually give them the possibility to enjoy the story behind the content, while more dedicated players get the loot and honor or whatever.
"Might" being better than "won't" in my vocabulary, I fail to see your point considering how Yoshi-P wants many people to enjoy the coil.

You don't see how providing people with an easy option will stop them from trying? Really.
Take a step back and look at the last few patches we've had.
2.2 hits, we discover that this time, to get the highest item level gear, despite having Soldiery, you also needed tokens that drop from coil. People did coil a lot more because they wanted to be i110, they did it because there was a carrot held above their heads.
Then we got 2.3, the hunt patch. Guess what happened? People commented saying that they didn't feel they had to do Coil anymore, people did dungeons less because they were able to get their soldiery whilst doing hunts and whilst getting oils/sands. There was an even juicier carrot that also required less effort.
The carrot is what motivates people to do anything in game, it is always that, whether it is storyline progress, loot, a fun fight, whatever you find fun in game, that is your personal carrot. Why does this matter? Because like I have just shown, people will take the easiest, simplest path to what they take and ignore any other, it is a fundamental fact that the player base has shown to be true. If an easy coil is provided, the people that want the story will take said easy path, and ignore the rest of the content, they won't attempt "regular" coil, they won't improve, they will ignore it.

[Duuude007]

They already said that it would be further eased when people are not driven to the content anymore. Namely post expansion.

[MiiyoAoi]

I can agree with the easy version for story completion. If there's no loot, I think it's a pretty good idea. DF can really suck and a big part of it is because 90% that can't win only make it to 50-60% on average and get no further and CAN'T learn the next phases. People leave/get frustrated and there's nothing learned. Youtube is a cancer to mmo's. Why play if you're going to watch someone else and not try to experience learning things for yourself?