Death Penalty

[Physic]

physic, this is why I brought up SMT and Lemmings. Failure meant redoing the level, or the large amount of time before fighting the boss because of getting the wrong random encounter. What is losing exp other than time investment that gradually builds?

In case you wanted other examples, the Diablo series, Baldur's Gate, Descent, Minecraft, Guild Wars 1, and Oregon Trail.

guild wars 1 i played and there was no experience loss, and you could try as much as you wanted. if you were in a quest you could fail for a full wipe, but other than that death was only effected by death penalty, the game was full of death techniques, i remember one ressurection skill where you basically become the monks zombie. and another where if you die you come back with heavy damage potential.

Dont mistake me, im not saying death should have no effect on your playing. Death should be able to cause you to fail a mission, or a run. They may in fact institute something in the coming dungeons where if everyone dies at once you fail *they already do this for missions. However having consequences for death doesnt equate to a death penalty that takes your money/items/experience already earned.
GW is the perfect example of making death matter without having a death penalty, and it makes all sorts of useful techniques and skill viable.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ressurection

all these skills with different styles of dealing with death, in a system with a death penalty, you are really saying you are never supposed to die. So with that in mind, you shouldnt/cant develop too much around death


point is adding death penalty does not make anything harder, it just makes it take longer to get back to where you were. In DP games i have played, most of the time the solution is that the game/groups expect you to take your DP and like it. Suck it up and take R1 its for the good of the team, go sac pull its for the good of the team. Lets all go experience party for a day so we can go zombie the hell out of some megaboss.

Its not adding any difficulty, its just adding a timesink in getting whatever you lose back. And by and large in endgame situations, people will expect, and demand you to die. its a stupid mechanic to punish people for death, then expect them to die to succeed, or have situations where they can do nothing about their deaths (death spells)

Its a totally different thing to make it so that death can cause you to fail an event or negatively impact your chance of success.

[geniusprime]

point is adding death penalty does not make anything harder, it just makes it take longer to get back to where you were.

Its not adding any difficulty, its just adding a timesink in getting whatever you lose back. And by and large in endgame situations, people will expect, and demand you to die. its a stupid mechanic to punish people for death, then expect them to die to succeed, or have situations where they can do nothing about their deaths (death spells)

Its a totally different thing to make it so that death can cause you to fail an event or negatively impact your chance of success.

I concure.

I don't know why such a simple concept is being misunderstood. Even though I have repeated many times that death penalty does not make the game harder just more inconvenient and that there are other ways to make the game genuinely harder.

If a boss is hard to defeat or an enemy is hard to kill. Death penalty does not make it harder. Death, is the consequence of the boss/enemy being difficult not death penalty. However, in situations where such as dungeons, timed quests, or any other contained trial, death penalty is expected for it is part of the challenge. Outside of these situations its just a useless timesink.

[Seif]

Death in FFXIV:

Oh, i died. Brb gonna make a tea.

I agree this is really dumb. It doesn't feel like I failed anything at all it's like the game is as anxious for you to stop playing as you are.

If I lost something like SP or XP at least I'd like to grind that back right away as fast as possible instead of quitting because as it is that's what XIV is telling you. If you fail you don't get to play at all.

XIV is not in a position to assume we care that much for it's company.

[Kiote]

... Death Penalty aka Weakness is designed so you can't just swarms things.. It's both reasonable and necessary. People being able to simply throw bodies at Boss Fights Ruins MMOs

[Randis]

the dead animation/sfx is lame too:

...ehhh (drops)

then you have to go to the menu (so annoying) to select return or watch out for a lil icon to pop up in case someone wants to revive you.
There should be a window poping up, telling you if you wish to be revived or if you want to return.

[Galoot]

As I said before, the current death penalty promotes bad game play and no strategy because there is no fear of death. If it was a bit more harsh with SP loss and longer weakness time, people would be more careful and prepare more before fights. And there wouldn't be this nonsense with people dying left and right because it's only a 3 minute weakness. No strategy, gung ho, let's throw everything that we have at a mob and see what happens type play arises. If the fear of SP loss was there, more people would prepare and setup the right jobs/action bars to take down a mob.

[geniusprime]

As I said before, the current death penalty promotes bad game play and no strategy because there is no fear of death. If it was a bit more harsh with SP loss and longer weakness time, people would be more careful and prepare more before fights. And there wouldn't be this nonsense with people dying left and right because it's only a 3 minute weakness. No strategy, gung ho, let's throw everything that we have at a mob and see what happens type play arises. If the fear of SP loss was there, more people would prepare and setup the right jobs/action bars to take down a mob.

I don't know why you think that would make people who don't strategize start to strategize. Again you are falling back on the you not liking how others play and you think that everyone should be penalized for it. You clearly state that in your post. To me it does not make sense removing accomplishments because of current failure. Its like you place first in a race but because you lost the second race your success of the previous race is downgraded from first place to second place even though the second race has absolutely nothing to do with the first race. Thats basically what loss of EXP/SP equates to when you die.

[Kallera]

I don't know why you think that would make people who don't strategize start to strategize. Again you are falling back on the you not liking how others play and you think that everyone should be penalized for it. You clearly state that in your post. To me it does not make sense removing accomplishments because of current failure. Its like you place first in a race but because you lost the second race your success of the previous race is downgraded from first place to second place even though the second race has absolutely nothing to do with the first race. Thats basically what loss of EXP/SP equates to when you die.

False analogy. The equivalent would be a change in your rankings after placing first in one race while crashng with a DNF in another. You get only points for the what you did achieve, but now your team must spend more time and resources fixing your car for the next race because of the crash. And Finally, your points in the standings will reflect your result, compared to those who got farther and those who finished.

[Frisque]

i never even noticed the exp loss in ffxiv lol, its so small

It isn't small. it's nonexistant. (unless you meant to say XI)

[Galoot]

I don't know why you think that would make people who don't strategize start to strategize. Again you are falling back on the you not liking how others play and you think that everyone should be penalized for it. You clearly state that in your post. To me it does not make sense removing accomplishments because of current failure. Its like you place first in a race but because you lost the second race your success of the previous race is downgraded from first place to second place even though the second race has absolutely nothing to do with the first race. Thats basically what loss of EXP/SP equates to when you die.

Let me put it this way:

Player A: has played a game for 2 hours since the last save point in a game...and this player is about to fight a boss in which after he will be able to save. Odds are this player will look into what this boss has to offer and adapt their game play to suit the certain mob.

Player B: just saved the game right before a boss fight and figures I'll just run in and see what happens, because there is no real loss if I die. The penalty brings another element to the game making it more of a challenge and making you think before you leap. Basically the game being much harder...I understand your point on where the accomplishment is to beat the boss, but where I'm getting at is to make it even more of a challenge makes it much much more of an accomplishment.

100 Blind Trial and Errors Vs. 10 Strategic Trial and Errors (because of fear of loss of SP)