7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[HeavenlyArmed]

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I have never once in this conversation come at you with anything subjective. You claimed that rotations were getting more and more complicated over time, that the game itself was getting more and more complicated over time, and that Dragoon was getting more and more busy over time. I demonstrated with examples why none of those things are true. What is subjective is our preferences. Yes, you have made clear you prefer the game being very simple, and I and everyone else in this thread have made clear that we prefer having at least some level of complexity. We're all allowed to have those preferences. But in service of defending your preferences you have constantly made objectively untrue claims about the game and about Dragoon. Also, you have absolutely tried to invalidate other people's opinions. Since you forgot, here are some examples of when you did that in both this and the other DRG threads.

I'm just glad most of you are never going to be involved in creating games.

Getting a bit contrived now aren't you?

This thread has to be satire, or you just wanted to show off your character's glam during cool poses with your ultimate weapon.

There are like 10-20 people trying to create an echo chamber of disapproval in this thread. Most people who are happy about the game spend their free time playing it, not whinging on the forums.

I agree with the devs, not the crybabies on the forums. Also no, I'm not going to make my own thread and let this one become an echo chamber of complaints. Sorry kid.

Nobody is crazy here, it's just weird that you think your perspective matters.

Alexa, play cry me a river by justin timberlake

Not a no-life ffxiv tryhard like you, I got better things to do than sit around playing games all day crying on the forums about square pandering to people who don't treat the game like their career.

[iiOmarSP]

Fun itself is a subjective concept. I don't want to play reaper lol, I like the job fantasy of dragoon and the animations. You just like mashing lots of buttons fast. Since you're suggesting me to play another job for gameplay, this means you must have no attachment to the fantasy of dragoon. So just play a different job yourself. Dragoon has always been one of the simpler melee jobs in the game. Play ninja, play samurai, play something else yourself.

Fun IS subjective yes, but at the same time: being miserable to play is also: a valid reason as to why people don't like it and therefore: Not fun to play.
I also play another Melee job, Ninja being my secondary, but I much prefer Dragoon due to its nature and aesthetics, being a busy job in BURST which is the absolute POINT.
And yes, I do have a attachment to its settings and fantasy aspects.

It's okay to give feedback, just recognize that you're stating subjective positions and don't try to argue with other people for expressing their subjective opinions.
There's no need to try to struggle for an echo chamber, it's not happening. State your case and be confident in it, stop yammering about the validity of differing opinions.

Which is exactly what everyone IS doing: they are Giving Feedback as to why they think this change is absolutely horrible, and while all of that is happening, you are over here with your little echo chamber of "everyone agrees with me", acting as if its just three or four people that complains, when pretty much only you in this ENTIRE THREAD, saying that its a "good change" without actually having any experience in it. So anything you say about the subject matter pretty much comes off as being disingenuous.

I get that you feel a certain way, speak for yourself.
The forums being a place for feedback statement goes both ways. I have never tried to invalidate your opinions or perspective, I just say that I like the way the game has changed and you decide that's a reason to argue. I explain why I like it, and you try to silence my perspective for what? Because you want an echo chamber. It's not happening lol. Get over it and move on.

So for that, there is one response to it:

You should also read and take up your own advice rather than constantly yap here in the forums, every single day, about how so many people like this change when its just you arguing with most people here about how they should consume product and never ask questions, rather than give feedback on this change.

[HikariKurosawa]

What's your point? I am stating my own opinion, not saying yours is invalid. Just expressing my disagreement with it personally and siding with the devs.

The other thing is, it's not simple at all the way it is now. It's just well designed.

[iiOmarSP]

Even if the majority of people were celebrating the changes and there was only a minority of people going against them, I wouldn't try to censor the opinions of the people who dislike them. It's okay to express your feedback. Go ahead with it. Stop crying over other people enjoying change.

And throughout this whole thread you were just going back and forth with the majority who voiced their distaste and dislike for this change, as if you want to censor everyone who doesn't line up with what you claim as "good change"
And while we are at it, stop having your insecurities kick in the moment someone comes over here saying "I've made an account to say that I don't like this change", "I don't like these changes, they should do this instead" than to tell me "stop crying over other people enjoying change" cause if anything, we are only seeing one person (that being you) immediately becoming upset the moment someone says anything here.

[HeavenlyArmed]

I am stating my own opinion, not saying yours is invalid.

Calling people crybabies for having a different opinion isn't implying their opinion is invalid? Saying someone's thread must be satire because you disagree isn't stating their opinion is invalid? Saying that it's weird people think their perspective matters isn't invalidating their opinion? Saying you're "glad most of [us] are never going to be involved in making games" isn't invalidating our opinions? You may need to learn how language works instead of spending so much time on the forums.

[HikariKurosawa]

Calling people crybabies for having a different opinion isn't implying their opinion is invalid? Saying someone's thread must be satire because you disagree isn't stating their opinion is invalid? Saying that it's weird people think their perspective matters isn't invalidating their opinion? Saying you're "glad most of [us] are never going to be involved in making games" isn't invalidating our opinions? You may need to learn how language works instead of spending so much time on the forums.

There is a difference between invalidating my position objectively, and me invalidating your opinion. Everything I said is okay, because I express it as my perspective.

What isn't okay is saying stuff like this "nobody supports the changes" "the changes objectively made the job unfun".

I am expressing my personal opinion, you are trying to pretend that your opinion is the only one happening. I'm okay with your opinion existing, I just think it's ridiculous and cringe.

we are only seeing one person (that being you) immediately becoming upset the moment someone says anything here.

I've never been upset at one point in this thread. Why would I be? The changes they made this patch are incredible. You're acting like someone on the winning side would ever be upset rofl. You're losing, not me.

[Aco505]

Wise are those who go past the cave to avoid interacting with the being within.

[CidHeiral]

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.

[HeavenlyArmed]

The other thing is, it's not simple at all the way it is now. It's just well designed.

To get back to the real discussion rather than sticking on your insistence that you're not invalidating people's opinions, let's go back to this. Dragoon may not be simple the way it is now in your opinion, but as I demonstrated in these two comments, it is the most simple it has been since the start of Stormblood.

Going into EW from ShB the job got simpler, between the 2 minute meta and the removal of Mirage Dives from Spineshatter, it was very straightforward to line up Life windows with buffs, and all they really added was charges that forced you to hold spineshatter for 2mins and Wyrmwind, which doesn't require a ton of thought. Then in DT they remove Mirage Dive's interaction entirely, [and] give us basically the same number of buttons to press meaning there is no added complexity.

[C]omplexity may not be exactly measurable, but it's hardly subjective. Having the exact amount of a resource that guarantees that every time buffs come off cooldown you willbe able to do your additional skills *is* less complicated than having too much or too little and needing to adjust to those circumstances to place those additional skills under as many buff windows as possible, and there is no person who will dispute that. And both of those are more complex than there not being a resource to manage, and those additional skills being accessed by pressing a button that has the exact same cooldown timer as the buffs you would be trying to align with, which again, no serious person would dispute. You can argue that Life Surge charges and Wyrmwind do add some complexity, but with Wyrmwind the entire thought process is "oh, my buffs will be back before I get another scale, let me hold this for a couple more seconds," which is not long-term planning, and with Life Surge it just amounts to press it twice under the stronger buffs and once under the weaker ones. Now, maybe some people will actually find that more complicated than needing to manage Gaze stacks to line up LotD and buffs, but I'd be shocked if that was a significant number of people.

[Aco505]

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.

To add a couple of points to this. You're trying to argue with someone that thinks that you need plugins to hit all your positionals when doing mechanics; you're cheating if you can do both properly.

Someone that now claims to just be giving his opinion but has shut others' opinions by calling them "noob" or "weak". In fact, the latter was removed from the specific comment because I guess he thought it was too much.

If you have the energy to keep arguing, by all means, but you're gonna require infinite patience.