7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[Aco505]

So you want it to just be a regular part of our combos? As a 6th hit? Thats quite a drastic change, if i understood you correctly (timers would need to be reworked etc).
I dont see the benefit in that if it would just be for flavor. Reducing it to a defensive would be simpler and add a gameplay option that currently doesnt exist in the kit.

If it keeps its 40s CD, it's 3 extra GCDs every 2-minutes. This could have implications in the rotation, particularly with the timers of CT/CS and Power Surge, that the devs would have to consider. It would also provide more gauge management if they decide to have it give a scale on hit.

Making it into a defensive would mean losing 3 actions every 2-minutes just to get a defensive. Right now, the job is too hollow when it comes to decision making and its filler. Life Surge is ironically one of the few things that forces us to think and tackle each burst window differently, because our combo loop is not a multiple of 30. The best example would be the 4-minute window, where it's optimal to use a Life Surge on a 340 potency GCD because that's the second best option available. This may change with the new Piercing Talon opener but it can still be a thing in specific encounters due to downtime or in other full uptime burst windows.

So if this weaponskill keeps the same cool down of 40 seconds, perhaps it could be manipulated so that we get stronger GCDs in burst by pushing weaker ones out. Alternatively, and my personal preference, the new GCD would have a lower CD (30s or ideally 20s) so that it wouldn't just be automatically saved for burst and made the filler more engaging.

In any case, just removing Life Surge without giving something back would strip us of any thought when it comes to burst windows besides checking whether we have to fire WWT or if we're able to fire it after using any of our buffs but before the next Raiden Thrust.

The job is already too automatic and simple. Everything is given and we don't have to earn our burst. If we start removing actions without compensation, we'll quickly realize how hollow it's going to be. This is why I don't agree with removing Mirage Dive or Life Surge. Rework them so that they make sense and interact with the rotation and the kit instead of just taking them away; too many actions just deal damage without zero connection with each other.

[Xaiken]

Quick add: If they really wanted to free up weave windows they should have removed Life Surge and sped up Stardiver animation. That there is 3 free weaves without taking away actual damaging attacks. I personally do not know of any DRG mains that actually like Life Surge and Stardiver animation lock.

And for those who believe Life Surge is a defensive ability, that heal has never been available or mattered when extra self healing was needed. It only serves to function like SAM's Kaiten and we all know what happened there. Just give DRG an actual defensive ability instead of tiptoeing around a line no one wants to be there.

[Aco505]

Quick add: If they really wanted to free up weave windows they should have removed Life Surge and sped up Stardiver animation. That there is 3 free weaves without taking away actual damaging attacks. I personally do not know of any DRG mains that actually like Life Surge and Stardiver animation lock.

And for those who believe Life Surge is a defensive ability, that heal has never been available or mattered when extra self healing was needed. It only serves to function like SAM's Kaiten and we all know what happened there. Just give DRG an actual defensive ability instead of tiptoeing around a line no one wants to be there.

Stardiver's animation lock should stay as it is. It's a specific quality that makes it feel like our strongest jump. The potencies of STD and Starcross should be swapped to account for the former being a single weave and to provide actual power to the longer animation lock.

As for Life Surge, it's only similar to SAM's Kaiten in that it buffs a weaponskill but the comparison ends there. Kaiten had to be used with every single Iaijutsu, effectively meaning that you'd always need to save gauge for it. Life Surge has limited charges and can only be used with certain GCDs. As explained in my previous comment, Life Surge also changes every burst window slightly due to the GCD loop not being a multiple of 30.

[AngelMercury]

This may change with the new Piercing Talon opener...

This is real... wow, that's pretty cursed x.x

[KaliG]

This is real... wow, that's pretty cursed x.x

*flips tables*

[Ometoch]

Venturing onto the official forum for the first time in ages to add my voice to the crowd. DRG is a job whose identity is tied up in weaving oGCDs, and the Nastrond change makes our burst feel super hollow.

This change honestly makes me wonder if anyone on the dev team actually likes playing DRG and understands what's appealing about it. It feels like a change that's meant to make the job more appealing to people who don't play DRG by sanding off a "rough edge", but I really don't think that's a good approach since it makes it less fun for people who like the oGCD-focused style of DRG and probably isn't going to significantly change the opinions of people who main other jobs already anyway.

We shouldn't be turning every job into mush to address the complaints of people who don't like it when they're leveling it up to the new max level only to put it away for the rest of the expansion.

[HikariKurosawa]

Even without 3x nastrond, and prior to getting starcross, the burst window is still busy. Call it a skill issue all you want, but the reality is it's just how it feels subjectively. I'm not talking about the difficulty of it, but the feeling of execution itself.

It's a good level of busy now, but it is objectively busy. Before it was just so busy that I didn't want to play the game, now it feels like a well designed product that is actually something I'd like to engage with.

Speak for yourselves and only yourselves when you say things like "it's meant to appeal to people who don't play dragoon" or "who asked for this?". Stop acting like you're the authority and only opinions that matter. Extremely entitled and embarrassing behavior. Less use of "we", more use of "me/I".

[HeavenlyArmed]

Even without 3x nastrond, and prior to getting starcross, the burst window is still busy. Call it a skill issue all you want, but the reality is it's just how it feels subjectively. I'm not talking about the difficulty of it, but the feeling of execution itself.

It's a good level of busy now, but it is objectively busy. Before it was just so busy that I didn't want to play the game, now it feels like a well designed product that is actually something I'd like to engage with.

Speak for yourselves and only yourselves when you say things like "it's meant to appeal to people who don't play dragoon" or "who asked for this?". Stop acting like you're the authority and only opinions that matter. Extremely entitled and embarrassing behavior. Less use of "we", more use of "me/I".

Okay, the last time I'm going to engage with you, but the counterevidence is all around you here. Look at how many people have said "I've never posted on the forums before, but came here to add my voice to those who are upset about this." Look at how this is by far the most active English thread about job design. Clearly, there is a substantial "we" who share this opinion. You don't? That's fine, go start a thread talking about how much you love the changes and see how much traction it gets. I'm sure you and the one other person in this whole thread who has defended the changes will have a great time talking between yourselves.

But let's also be clear about how busy the job is and has been. Right now at level 100 the job is less busy than it was at level 90 during Endwalker. During a two-minute burst window you have 9-11 OGCDs to weave vs 11-13. You're pre-Starcross, so you can take off an additional one. At level 90 currently you can get through your entire burst window with only one double weave in some situations and that's totally optimal. If you double-weave everything then half your burst window is spent just doing your basic GCD rotation with no OGCDs. And it only gets slower the earlier you go. I'm not saying the job needs to be as OGCD heavy during burst at level 100 as it was before the change, which btw is exactly +1 OGCD compared to EW DRG. But there were ways that could have been done that don't make those early levels feel as much worse as they do, and I hope that in the near future they opt to revert the Natrond change and instead put in place one of those alternatives.

And for those who want to check my math, here's a pastebin where I list out all of the OGCD usage during two-minute buff windows: https://pastebin.com/4aPke9Ks
Keep in mind that for one-minute windows you also remove Dragonfire and anything related to it as well as Life Surges at 80 and below.

[HikariKurosawa]

Okay, the last time I'm going to engage with you, but the counterevidence is all around you here. Look at how many people have said "I've never posted on the forums before, but came here to add my voice to those who are upset about this." Look at how this is by far the most active English thread about job design. Clearly, there is a substantial "we" who share this opinion. You don't? That's fine, go start a thread talking about how much you love the changes and see how much traction it gets. I'm sure you and the one other person in this whole thread who has defended the changes will have a great time talking between yourselves.

But let's also be clear about how busy the job is and has been. Right now at level 100 the job is less busy than it was at level 90 during Endwalker. During a two-minute burst window you have 10-12 OGCDs to weave vs 11-13. You're pre-Starcross, so you can take off an additional one. At level 90 currently you can get through your entire burst window with only one double weave in some situations and that's totally optimal. If you double-weave everything then half your burst window is spent just doing your basic GCD rotation with no OGCDs. And it only gets slower the earlier you go. I'm not saying the job needs to be as OGCD heavy during burst at level 100 as it was before the change, which btw is exactly +1 OGCD compared to EW DRG. But there were ways that could have been done that don't make those early levels feel as much worse as they do, and I hope that in the near future they opt to revert the Natrond change and instead put in place one of those alternatives.

And for those who want to check my math, here's a pastebin where I list out all of the OGCD usage during two-minute buff windows: https://pastebin.com/pbpSwszc
Keep in mind that for one-minute windows you also remove Dragonfire and anything related to it as well as Life Surges at 80 and below.

I mean it's fine to feel that way, but that's just not how the devs want the game to play. I agree with the devs, not the crybabies on the forums. Also no, I'm not going to make my own thread and let this one become an echo chamber of complaints. Sorry kid.

[CidHeiral]

Keep your eyes on the prize, people.