Thread: 7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

I never had any issues with Dragon Sight but I would be happy to sacrifice it if that meant we got the rest of pre-Dawntrail DRG back.

Since they removed the tether, Dragon Sight just wasn't the same. If the tether was brought back though...

Originally Posted by Aco505

Since they removed the tether, Dragon Sight just wasn't the same. If the tether was brought back though...

I haven't been on here in AGES otherwise I would have posted before but...

I still do miss bellygoon tether though I'm one of those people that used the F keys to select people to target during my opener rather than use a macro because the lag is so horrible... Anyway it was fun and silly seeing it fly around while you jumped, etc. I liked that skill and still miss it.

For me also rather than boss attacks which is kind of whatever having a bunch of nastronds made AoE dmg like 2% less likely to fall asleep while doing expert roulette. I actually like aimed AoE attacks like how Monk used to be though only problem is tab targeting is horrendous in this game which can make it a pain.

Not much to add besides what people already said here otherwise, dragoon was awesome and the best melee design in endwalker, now not as much.

Since leveling the job a bit and doing some of the dawntrail dungeon/trial content, it's crazy that people want 3 nastronds back. I do think they should remove life surge and add my suggestion, but yeah this job has way too much going on in burst.

The opinions and preferences of veteran players are so out of touch with reality that it's crazy. Given enough practice, everything becomes normal. Should this level of execution be the norm in a video game? No way in hell. You're pushing away new players. It's discouraging and disengagingly overwhelming to approach current job design, and it was even more complicated and busy in endwalker.

In 8.0, I really hope they make serious efforts toward simplification and streamlined job design. It's gone too far, and the people who have stuck around with the game the entire time have no clue what it really feels like. It's all just muscle memory for you after all.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Since leveling the job a bit and doing some of the dawntrail dungeon/trial content, it's crazy that people want 3 nastronds back. I do think they should remove life surge and add my suggestion, but yeah this job has way too much going on in burst.

The opinions and preferences of veteran players are so out of touch with reality that it's crazy. Given enough practice, everything becomes normal. Should this level of execution be the norm in a video game? No way in hell. You're pushing away new players. It's discouraging and disengagingly overwhelming to approach current job design, and it was even more complicated and busy in endwalker.

In 8.0, I really hope they make serious efforts toward simplification and streamlined job design. It's gone too far, and the people who have stuck around with the game the entire time have no clue what it really feels like. It's all just muscle memory for you after all.

Having played around it with a bit now, I also don't really see a downside.

I don't like the current Dragoon design. At all. But 3 Nastrond -> 1 Nastrond seems positive, tbh. There's no need for the extra-RSI of pressing Nastrond 3 times, mentally you're not doing much more than going through rote button motions anyways. Might as well cut that down, give your hands a better time, and have exactly as 0 brain engagement as before.

Does Dragoon need a rework? For sure. But this change doesn't hurt it. There's nothing left to hurt anyways. :P

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

After that though? What can you really do to advance the job? It would be completely streamlined. Every animation would be modernized, the burst window would be as full as it should realistically be(I find it overwhelmingly packed as is, but life surge and WWT make it more complicated than it would be in this idea), and everything would flow naturally. I guess they could make additions to our combat outside of burst, but it's a delicate balance.

Oh I'd mostly want jobs to break away from the "all the exact same combat design with visual differences"-mold. Meaning I'd want reworks for all combat jobs that heavily heterogenize them.

My big idea for Dragoon would be to make many GCDs "jumps" of 1.5x-2.0x GCD timer, and while airborne you get a targetting cursor akin to the PvP LB, and while airborne you're invulnerable. Center the job around jumps and airtime, 105%!

Originally Posted by Carighan

Oh I'd mostly want jobs to break away from the "all the exact same combat design with visual differences"-mold. Meaning I'd want reworks for all combat jobs that heavily heterogenize them.

My big idea for Dragoon would be to make many GCDs "jumps" of 1.5x-2.0x GCD timer, and while airborne you get a targetting cursor akin to the PvP LB, and while airborne you're invulnerable. Center the job around jumps and airtime, 105%!

Hmm lol, maybe they could do that for pvp but I would prefer to keep pve dragoon similar to how it already is. I really like how it plays and it is extremely satisfying, I just wish it was a little bit cleaner and more streamlined.

Or maybe the future of job design should be "limited mode" versions of the existing jobs, where they really go wild with the ability designs. They could have really in depth job quests that way like the blue mage does and it would give them a ton of creative freedom over how the jobs play, since they wouldn't have to balance them around the main battle content.

Since the jobs are already pretty much full and approaching a dead end of development, it's either 1) rework entirely and scrap nearly everything, 2) focus on overhauling the low level experience, or 3) give each job a limited version that is really unique.

Originally Posted by Carighan

Having played around it with a bit now, I also don't really see a downside.

I don't like the current Dragoon design. At all. But 3 Nastrond -> 1 Nastrond seems positive, tbh. There's no need for the extra-RSI of pressing Nastrond 3 times, mentally you're not doing much more than going through rote button motions anyways. Might as well cut that down, give your hands a better time, and have exactly as 0 brain engagement as before.

Does Dragoon need a rework? For sure. But this change doesn't hurt it. There's nothing left to hurt anyways. :P

After playing a bit more myself I have no idea where you're coming from. One minute windows are very boring now with so few buttons to press, and as I stated initially at levels below 100 there's just nothing to do ever. At level 70 after a Jump, Mirage Dive and your one Nastrond your one minute "burst" is finished, if you can even call it that. Again, I don't necessarily mind it being a little less busy during 2 minute windows at 100, but god this was not the way to do it, because everything that isn't that scenario feels significantly more boring. It's pushed me into basically maining Dancer in the new Ultimate because at least they have some variance and some stuff to build toward.

Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

After playing a bit more myself I have no idea where you're coming from. One minute windows are very boring now with so few buttons to press, and as I stated initially at levels below 100 there's just nothing to do ever. At level 70 after a Jump, Mirage Dive and your one Nastrond your one minute "burst" is finished, if you can even call it that. Again, I don't necessarily mind it being a little less busy during 2 minute windows at 100, but god this was not the way to do it, because everything that isn't that scenario feels significantly more boring. It's pushed me into basically maining Dancer in the new Ultimate because at least they have some variance and some stuff to build toward.

Ah, yeah I can see how others think differently there than me.

To me, mechanical complexity in dexterity need to the player is a kind of complexity that yields no depth in a static-rotation setup (which if we're being honest all combat jobs currently are). That is, I find it superfluous. If my rotation is static either way, all having to press 3 buttons every 2.5s instead of 1 button does is give me RSI faster. And RSI is not a good thing, so that setup isn't a good thing. Either way I mentally am zoned out since it requires no thought to follow this rotation - that's why the devs do it that way so we can all focus on the fight mechanics.

And hence to me, there's no "loss" in having 2 extra free oGCD weaving spots. Honestly they could make the money alternating combat sequence an autocast, and that'd actually be more interesting (since it plays on its own that keeps me at least marginally on my toes for positionals). But it'd be exactly as "complex" as the current one. And it's the same with the excessive weaving to me.

But I know others really like mechanical complexity, so it's a very personal thing, and I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but fair enough.