7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[Schan]

Why would I continue to play a game that isn't designed for me when there are so many other activities that are designed for me?

I mean... If you want to stop playing a game because one job doesn't cater to you then I don't know what to say. Go ahead?

[HikariKurosawa]

I mean... If you want to stop playing a game because one job doesn't cater to you then I don't know what to say. Go ahead?

I mean, I did? Then I resubscribed after they changed the job to be more streamlined this patch. The job is catering to me in reality, not you. Difference between us is that I unsubscribe from the game if I recognize that I disagree with the design, you just continue to play while you complain on the forums. Who do you think they should take seriously?

[Schan]

I mean, I did? Then I resubscribed after they changed the job to be more streamlined this patch. The job is catering to me in reality, not you. Difference between us is that I unsubscribe from the game if I recognize that I disagree with the design, you just continue to play while you complain on the forums. Who do you think they should take seriously?

Ideally, both. People who complain still care about the game, but eventually they will leave too. If SE wants to ignore the warning signs then it's on them. I really don't want them to pull a Blizzard but it seems we're heading that way.

But overall, I agree. Loyalty is not a thing that gets rewarded be it in game or in your professional life.

SE is not very... savy. Just look at the 2135674845 gacha games they've made and shut down.

[HikariKurosawa]

Ideally, both. People who complain still care about the game, but eventually they will leave too. If SE wants to ignore the warning signs then it's on them. I really don't want them to pull a Blizzard but it seems we're heading that way.

But overall, I agree. Loyalty is not a thing that gets rewarded be it in game or in your professional life.

SE is not very... savy. Just look at the 2135674845 gacha games they've made and shut down.

Why would you be rewarded for being happy enough to continue to play the game? You're already content enough to keep playing. If anything, people who are unhappy with the game enough to unsubscribe are the ones who should be rewarded. I want to play the game but couldn't justify it because I didn't like the state of the game enough.

Then when they change the game to make me happy, I reward them in turn by resubscribing. This is a business, not a friendship.

[HeavenlyArmed]

Why would you be rewarded for being happy enough to continue to play the game? You're already content enough to keep playing. If anything, people who are unhappy with the game enough to unsubscribe are the ones who should be rewarded. I want to play the game but couldn't justify it because I didn't like the state of the game enough.

Then when they change the game to make me happy, I reward them in turn by resubscribing. This is a business, not a friendship.

What you seem to miss is that you need an active sub to even post on the forums, meaning that if you just unsub then you're not sending any specific message to the devs about what you take issue with. That's what this thread is, sending the message about what we think is wrong with a change as it happens, to be clear that we don't like it. And considering this is by far the most active thread right now in the jobs section of the EN forums, and everyone except you who has posted here has been actively displeased with this change, there's a good chance that message comes across so we don't need to take more drastic action in response. Though also to be clear, I expect from reading most of these replies that there will absolutely people who unsub as a result of this change if it's not reverted as well, we're just giving the devs a chance to fix it before that happens.

[Illedy]

I picked up the job in Shadowbringers and what made me fall in love with it was a combination of a healthy balance of positional actions, a fun job gauge to manage, jumping actions with animation locks and interesting ogcds. Its gcd rotation has since being extremely simple and has suffered from a boring leveling process because of that.

With Endwalker and the 2min meta, job gauge was trivialized and they started decreasing the animation locks in jumps and I felt great part of the skill expression and ceilling was gone, but I still could enjoy it. Now with Dawntrail we lost positionals and ogcds, and it no longer retains anything that made it interesting for me. I could still accept Drakesbane not being a positional in exchange fore more ogcds, but losing the last bit of its identity is where I draw the line. This job is no longer fun for me.

Now it is an extremely simple gcd rotation for a while with a few ogcds every minute. No need to plan around anything and no failure state, I can only see this state appealing to players who want to be good at the game while refusing to learn it. What even is the point of playing a game if I can not lose?

It is a shame because encounter design so far is being very good this expansion, but I can not experience it in a way I like. I know this trend of striking is already a meme, and it will achieve nothing, but I will not be playing this job until these changes are reverted or compensated. I offer some suggestions:

-Make the single use of Nastrond more interesting. For example, getting inspiration from PvP dragoon where it is an execute, it could deal more damage the later into Life of the Dragon you use it, dealing maximum damage if executed withing the last 5 seconds (4 last ogcds).
-Give other ogcds more interesting effects instead of being potency dumps. For example, Stardiver could increase damage dealt for 8s, allowing you to time it with your 3 strongest gcds and 4 strongest ogcds.
-Make Life Surge interesting. As many other players have discussed above, this ability does not feel impactful or fun. For example, potency of Raiden Thrust or Drakesbane (only one of them) could be significantly increased if it is used after Life Surge, to a point where it overpowers other gcd actions. This would make it feel better to use and plan around, especially when your gcd lines up to do that twice in burst window.
-Allow stacking a third charge of Firstminds' Focus. This would guarantee the usage of a second cast of Wyrmwind Thrust during most buff windows given you plan around it and execute it correctly outside of burst, without allowing a third one.

I would love for other dragoon players to offer and discuss more alternatives, I am sure not all of my suggestions will seem fun for everyone. And I mean dragoon players, not players who used the job in a dungeon once or twice.

In conclusion, dragoon was never broken so I feel offended as a player for this excuse of a fix.

[HikariKurosawa]

What you seem to miss is that you need an active sub to even post on the forums, meaning that if you just unsub then you're not sending any specific message to the devs about what you take issue with. That's what this thread is, sending the message about what we think is wrong with a change as it happens, to be clear that we don't like it. And considering this is by far the most active thread right now in the jobs section of the EN forums, and everyone except you who has posted here has been actively displeased with this change, there's a good chance that message comes across so we don't need to take more drastic action in response. Though also to be clear, I expect from reading most of these replies that there will absolutely people who unsub as a result of this change if it's not reverted as well, we're just giving the devs a chance to fix it before that happens.

You know when you unsub it gives you a prompt to explain why you're unsubbing right? Who are they going to consider, people who remain subbed while giving kneejerk reactions on the forums, or people who unsub and explain why they are unhappy with the game in the space provided to voice your reasoning for unsubbing?

I almost guarantee none of the people complaining in this thread are going to unsub from the game as a result of these changes. You'll throw a little fit, adapt, and realize that the devs actually know what they are doing and it is better this way.

[Socram]

I miss shadowbringers DRG, for me it was THE perfect job back then, the rotation was super fun and smooth and had a lot of room for optimization, now I feel like the job is just another melee with barely any identity

[HeavenlyArmed]

You'll throw a little fit, adapt, and realize that the devs actually know what they are doing and it is better this way.

Frankly, in this case I don't think they do, and I have plenty of examples for that. As I stated in the initial post, my biggest concern is how the job feels with this change from levels 70-90. Which is to say, it feels AWFUL in any pre-level 100 content now. Forget feeling busy, if you single-weave your OGCDs at level 70 you run out of buttons to press in your burst less than halfway through your bugg timers. If you do double weave it happens sooner, and even at level 90 you can spend nearly half of your "burst window" just doing your basic rotation because the devs have taken away the ability to do anything else. And this isn't the first time they've implemented a job change in a way that leaves a job feeling miserable at an earlier level. Viper's changes have that job feeling empty until you hit level 90. Reaper was implemented in a way that felt not fun until level 80 and has received no change to that. A ton of the tanks and healers are notably missing key tools at these levels, and the devs have shown no interest in addressing any of that. With all that said, I wanted to also address some of the other comments you've made.

"content gets harder every expansion and on top of that they add more complexity to the rotations"

This literally doesn't happen. This Savage tier was one of the easiest in a very long time, and jobs always get some amount of pruning (as did DRG going into DT) to ensure that to the devs' standard the jobs remain at a similar level of complexity from expansion to expansion.

"I think the real minority is people who want this game to feel like a job." "...the jobs should just feel good to play without needing to make them require a PHD to execute the rotation consistently."

If needing to press buttons faster for 20 seconds every two minutes "feels like a job" or "requires a PhD" in your eyes that really does seem more like a problem with you, plus there are plenty of jobs that do not have that playstyle that you can try. DRG is the job that has this identity, and clearly it is an identity that its players very much enjoy.

"There are very few people who enjoy the experience of "just getting by" with "non-optimal" play."

Pictured above: a person who has never done an expert roulette in their entire life lmao

"most people don't want rotations designed the way the people who primarily post on the forums do."

I think you missed the sheer number of replies to this thread that start with "I don't normally post on the forums" or even "I made a forum account specifically to express my concerns about this." People are coming from other places to make their voices heard, because the forums are the one place the devs actually look at feedback.

[KaliG]

I applaud HeavenlyArmed's patience but I honestly don't see much point in debating with "Dragoon level 92" who has never tried the rotation at 100.

Like... please try the rotation before deciding you know better than all the people who have played the class?