M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[Bobby66]

This is the issue it seems healers want tanks to be boring meat shields that do practically nothing else, old aggro management isn't coming back nor is stances "boss positioning" hasn't really had many importance in a long time either not to mention that fights always have a off tank, I see tanks as Supports, In ff14 they should be the middle ground between a DPS and healers, frankly it's fun to have tools that can help party members on a tank and I don't want that took away, I like being a paladin and being able to "protect" people which isn't just "lol i have aggro".

I really am tired of comments that miss what I and many others like about tanks, seems to think ruining the tank role into making it more boring will all of a sudden make healers more fun, because it won't even removing all non-healer healing will barely change the enjoyability of healers.

This has been my point of contention. I get healers are not in a great spot enjoyment wise to some but actively voicing to take away tools or what tank players find enjoyable is not going to solve anything, and even if it did it would fix one problem for another. If they brought back some of the old things like as you said old aggro management, stances, differing boss mechanics that real more complex boss control and movement something then maybe the trade off for DPS might be worth, but doubt this will happen because overall I do not think the FFXIV tanking community wants such changes. They like the overall state tanks are in now.

I get players like Super are upset but what I think they fail to understand is the damage is a part that does appeal to many tank players, if they reduce that aspect then yes I do not it is a stretch to say many tank players would not playing the role. Even if we brought back older systems like aggro management I am sure that would turn many players off from tanking also. The solution cannot be remove aspects that make current tank players happy, it has to be something else or all we would be doing is switching places with healers.

Because the healers want things removed from the tanks that directly encroach on the healer role. The devs ripped out agro management from tanks and made them immortal melee DPS with training wheels. Losing what makes tanks tanks is not an excuse to then demand to basically take the healer role away from the healers

I want excessive healing removed from the tanks BECAUSE I want the tanks to be given utility that DOESNT encroach on the healer role. Cover is a fantastic skill, shareable TBN is another fantastic skill, intervention and HOS before the healing upgrades are great skills. The tanks raidwide utility (minus the excessive healing on SIO) are good skills. I’m also a fan of adding other utility such as a sort of cover equivalent that pulls debuffs off other players. Imagine if a DPS got a spicy DOT and you could pull it off them and tank it with your better HP. Covalence like skills where you can pass healing through you and amplify it is another avenue I’d like to explore

I don’t want the tanks healing to be removed so they can suffer, I want it to be replaced with tank specific utility that doesn’t encroach on the healer role. I truly don’t understand how people see the tank being 80% of the healer role and see the healer role rotting in the corner and go “okay guys we can’t touch the tanks while trying to fix this problem”, if you tank fantasy is huge AOE healing and healing other party members then are you really a tank or are you just lamenting the healer role is garbage by playing a role that’s more fun to heal on than the healers.

Yes, but given SE track record when they remove something how often do they replace it with some equal in return? I am sure you can see why people may be turned off when players make suggestions for something to be removed when it comes to FFXIV.

Wow... it's almost like healers use to have an engaging damage rotation, and they took it away so not as many people enjoy the role lol.

If tanks want to have fun dealing damage they should play dps.

I don't really care that tanks have healing, it's basically the only utility the game can give since they've watered down so many aspects of job design. But they have so much they're invincible even up to extreme content. Most people here are asking that "Hey, maybe the tanks shouldn't be invincible" and your response is asking why you want to take away their fun...

Let tanks be Gods at mitigation, let them stop 90% of all the damage for all I care, but let the hp they do lose be the healers' job.

Good point, why was that engaging DPS rotations removed? Sure be upset but we cannot deny a large reason why many tank players do play them is because SE turned them into easier DPS, and that added power fantasy. Everything healers want is fair, but if we are being honest given SE's track record do you REALLY see them taking those aspects away from tanks?

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