#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Ruruura]

Yeah it's fun being overpowered in a multiplayer game. But I hope you'll understand it's not a great look to ask for sympathy for your fears about losing that, from the role that is most effected by overtuned tanks. Other players are not just there as support characters for WAR tanks to enjoy their power fantasy.

I mean i play PLD and SGE so i would not know, but as i said before, the problem here is that the entire game is designed around DPS instead of defense.

If you want to take healing away then you have to give tanks something else, you cannot just turn tanks into "dps with a provoke" so that you feel relevant and useful.

But what?

If you make us more tanky and chonky, like the classic design, then a whole new healing issue will happen as healing will be slow and predictable and only busters will be a real threat, which i doubt is much more engaging than what you have now.

[Shurrikhan]

Tanks having self sustain and lots of it is not a new concept in MMOS, if you think FFXIV tanks are self-sufficient just wait until you see what a geared tank can do in a game like WoW where it is not only that they do not need healers, they do not need the dps either as they can solo normal content and even still relevant raids on their own.

FFXIV´s tank self sustain s not the issue nor the reason why healing in FFIXV is in the situation it is, and it is just a lazy "solution" that would affect the rest of us.

So again, keep us out of your problems.

I mean, doing normal content as a geared player late xpac in WoW is akin to doing last expansion's early content unsynced here but also with actual ability to kite. It's a bit apples to oranges.

Agreed that reducing tank sustain isn't really the answer, though. (Though I'd happily see passive %DR greatly reduced, thereby placing more emphasis on the active skills, even if they have to get a use or two more per minute to compensate.)

[Bobby66]

I have made a post about this before but I think the crux of the issue is that there is no clear image of what healers are supposed to be.

No one said that a healer is the only role that can ruin a run, but being as this is about healers people are talking about healers. Yes, AST cards were awesome when they more utility based, but they were removed for a reason chances of us getting a more utility based or support healers is probably not very likely. Yes more DPS skills would be nice to press, but even then at a basic level people would still probably be bored with that. In terms of rotation for a healer to fit within their vision of healers and not wanting to push healers to think they need to do good damage and also heal the DPS rotation on paper does much change from 111111 or 123123?

What makes rotations fun is the builder spending aspect. I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise. In theory they could make healers more needed by making tanks overall more squishy without removing tools from them not by much but just enough where maybe more GCD heals are needed either through tempo increase or raw damage increase. Yes, the vision is not clear and they should be more clear about it.

[Aword3213]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play

They definitely can. They just don't bother.

while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.

It's SE fault when they gave too much power to tanks. Now people have tasted the power of one man army being tanks, they definetely don't want it to be taken away. I play tanks more often than healers. I think tanks are overpowered and it's hurting the game. Tanking is also quite boring because you no longer have to worry about enmity and your defensives are just oGCD gated by cooldown without any interaction with your kits with only few exceptions.

They don't have to remove self sustain on tanks though. Increasing pressure on tanks would be an option too, like bringing back cleaves and returning critical hit to bosses.

I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

They did sweeping change before. They can do it again.

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

I support nefing tanks not because of healer strike, but from a perspective that direction taken on tanks is detrimental to the game

[Kes13a]

No one said that a healer is the only role that can ruin a run, but being as this is about healers people are talking about healers. Yes, AST cards were awesome when they more utility based, but they were removed for a reason chances of us getting a more utility based or support healers is probably not very likely. Yes more DPS skills would be nice to press, but even then at a basic level people would still probably be bored with that. In terms of rotation for a healer to fit within their vision of healers and not wanting to push healers to think they need to do good damage and also heal the DPS rotation on paper does much change from 111111 or 123123?

What makes rotations fun is the builder spending aspect. I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise. In theory they could make healers more needed by making tanks overall more squishy without removing tools from them not by much but just enough where maybe more GCD heals are needed either through tempo increase or raw damage increase. Yes, the vision is not clear and they should be more clear about it.

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

[Evergrey]

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

I agree. A toolkit shouldn't be limited to when a group isn't paying attention but help in such situations.
The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on the Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

[Kes13a]

I agree. A toolkit shouldn't be limited to when a group isn't paying attention but help in such situations.
The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on the Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

I know. the problem is that people seem to have forgotten that usually, you play a game to have fun. not min/max every spec of enjoyment out of a "fun" activity.

[PercibelTheren]

I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise.

But healers already are green DPS, just a garbage one that keeps spamming one button.

[Bobby66]

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

Yeah I do not want green dps either, and yeah it is a weird feeling when I am happy when I get a bad group I am happy as a healer, hell when I queue with friends I tell my buddy tank to remove gear and still go hard. We do fine that is were I got the idea about maybe lowering the overall DR of tanks without removing tools. It is fun to do, but I can also see such things stressing out players and while they stated they want some degree of stress idk if we will see that in normal mode content beyond what we are seeing ATM.

But healers already are green DPS, just a garbage one that keeps spamming one button.

Yes, but I don't see them adding more depth of a DPS rotation that requires some effort to execute based off that 2021 interview it seems they do not want healers to have to worry about doing good damage and good healing. So at best they give is more buttons to press but at the core what is different from 111111 and 123123.

As stated what makes a rotation fun is some aspect of building and spending. More utility focus would also be nice like old AST cards but those were removed for a reason. We cannot ignore that stuff was removed or changed for a reason. Any change will have an impact in another aspect. Say they add more complexity to rotations and class play. That would require adjustments with overall content and who knows how the overall community will take to that. This is not an easy fix for SE.

I agree. A toolkit shouldn't be limited to when a group isn't paying attention but help in such situations.
The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on tchaincs he Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

Exactly, like it or not things were changed or a reason. We need to keep remember this.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Yes, but I don't see them adding more depth of a DPS rotation that requires some effort to execute based off that 2021 interview it seems they do not want healers to have to worry about doing good damage and good healing. So at best they give is more buttons to press but at the core what is different from 111111 and 123123.

You could easily fit some of Bard's DPS kit to a Healer to give it some actual depth.