#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Ayan_Calvesse]

"Healer gameplay should not be dominated by tank healing.-----let me throw real buffs on the party -ded-

Honestly I feel this would be the path I would take with healers; I would transition them to a "support" model; currently the FF XIV dynamic is "shield or pure" for healers; but I would like to see generally all the roles start to vary more; however then you would begin to see more anal statics where they would only demand certain classes as the balance nightmare begins.

Myself I played a "Healer" for migard in DAOC; we provided buffs and most importantly a melee attack speed buff in a group of players that were most commonly melee-dps. So while I was healing I was also providing CC and this additional side job which felt good. I think looking at each of the role designations and making them fill some sort of sub-role would be nice; but being careful not to have the sub-role outshine the actual jobs roles. Its one of the reasons I am really reluctant to make healers in FF XIV a significant source of damage as it will then become a expectation and skill ceiling that will round up some decent healers but sub-par DPS dealers in the healing community. I worry given that "faster killing = faster winning" will just round out all the other sub-role healers however. Its why I always roll my eyes at the GNB/DRK as the damage Off-tank notion as generally the majority of them are not drastically outpacing paladins or warriors damage wise despite their lower survival.

[IDontPetLalas]

here you go. Even the vaunted WoW has noticed a problem with tanks being unkillable. a little knowledge of the issue goes a long way.

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker...94517#24223979

Thanks, if only FFXIV would align in future with that.

[Ruruura]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

[LyraShu]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

Personally, I think that is kinda fair to say.

I will say that in the current day, I had to force myself to play healer for my friends and it was just because of the 100+ casts of my 1 ability in a trial, not really from the other job's abilities. I do get, quite often, poked at for trying to mit the tank during a tank buster though also in the current gameplay so I agree, there is a balance between too much self-sustain and not enough.

Really though, IF there is an answer that comes out from this, I just hope that it becomes an interesting change and one that doesn't invalidate anyone's jobs.

[aiqa]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.
I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

Yeah it's fun being overpowered in a multiplayer game. But I hope you'll understand it's not a great look to ask for sympathy for your fears about losing that, from the role that is most effected by overtuned tanks. Other players are not just there as support characters for WAR tanks to enjoy their power fantasy.

[Ruruura]

Yeah it's fun being overpowered in a multiplayer game. But I hope you'll understand it's not a great look to ask for sympathy for your fears about losing that, from the role that is most effected by overtuned tanks. Other players are not just there as support characters for WAR tanks to enjoy their power fantasy.

I mean i play PLD and SGE so i would not know, but as i said before, the problem here is that the entire game is designed around DPS instead of defense.

If you want to take healing away then you have to give tanks something else, you cannot just turn tanks into "dps with a provoke" so that you feel relevant and useful.

But what?

If you make us more tanky and chonky, like the classic design, then a whole new healing issue will happen as healing will be slow and predictable and only busters will be a real threat, which i doubt is much more engaging than what you have now.

[Shurrikhan]

Tanks having self sustain and lots of it is not a new concept in MMOS, if you think FFXIV tanks are self-sufficient just wait until you see what a geared tank can do in a game like WoW where it is not only that they do not need healers, they do not need the dps either as they can solo normal content and even still relevant raids on their own.

FFXIV´s tank self sustain s not the issue nor the reason why healing in FFIXV is in the situation it is, and it is just a lazy "solution" that would affect the rest of us.

So again, keep us out of your problems.

I mean, doing normal content as a geared player late xpac in WoW is akin to doing last expansion's early content unsynced here but also with actual ability to kite. It's a bit apples to oranges.

Agreed that reducing tank sustain isn't really the answer, though. (Though I'd happily see passive %DR greatly reduced, thereby placing more emphasis on the active skills, even if they have to get a use or two more per minute to compensate.)

[Bobby66]

I have made a post about this before but I think the crux of the issue is that there is no clear image of what healers are supposed to be.

No one said that a healer is the only role that can ruin a run, but being as this is about healers people are talking about healers. Yes, AST cards were awesome when they more utility based, but they were removed for a reason chances of us getting a more utility based or support healers is probably not very likely. Yes more DPS skills would be nice to press, but even then at a basic level people would still probably be bored with that. In terms of rotation for a healer to fit within their vision of healers and not wanting to push healers to think they need to do good damage and also heal the DPS rotation on paper does much change from 111111 or 123123?

What makes rotations fun is the builder spending aspect. I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise. In theory they could make healers more needed by making tanks overall more squishy without removing tools from them not by much but just enough where maybe more GCD heals are needed either through tempo increase or raw damage increase. Yes, the vision is not clear and they should be more clear about it.

[Aword3213]

The problem is that it is extremely hard to balance tanks to feel tanky and satisfying to play

They definitely can. They just don't bother.

while also making them dependant on healers because you require me to hurt in order to play your fantasy, but me hurting too often kills my fantasy.

It's SE fault when they gave too much power to tanks. Now people have tasted the power of one man army being tanks, they definetely don't want it to be taken away. I play tanks more often than healers. I think tanks are overpowered and it's hurting the game. Tanking is also quite boring because you no longer have to worry about enmity and your defensives are just oGCD gated by cooldown without any interaction with your kits with only few exceptions.

They don't have to remove self sustain on tanks though. Increasing pressure on tanks would be an option too, like bringing back cleaves and returning critical hit to bosses.

I do not think this problem could be solved without heavily redesigning all tanks around defense and party protection (Perhaps more mechanics requiring tanks to do stuff like paladin wings instead of the current wack-a-dodge)

They did sweeping change before. They can do it again.

But i do not have faith on them doing any of this, so what i fear is for them to just nerf us to appease you somewhat, and neither of us truly getting what we want, which is more likely what is going to happen.

I support nefing tanks not because of healer strike, but from a perspective that direction taken on tanks is detrimental to the game

[Kes13a]

No one said that a healer is the only role that can ruin a run, but being as this is about healers people are talking about healers. Yes, AST cards were awesome when they more utility based, but they were removed for a reason chances of us getting a more utility based or support healers is probably not very likely. Yes more DPS skills would be nice to press, but even then at a basic level people would still probably be bored with that. In terms of rotation for a healer to fit within their vision of healers and not wanting to push healers to think they need to do good damage and also heal the DPS rotation on paper does much change from 111111 or 123123?

What makes rotations fun is the builder spending aspect. I mean that seems to be the general fear of SE if they put a focus on a dps system for healers, healers will feel more like a green dps and tbh every sign seems to show SE does not really want that even if they say otherwise. In theory they could make healers more needed by making tanks overall more squishy without removing tools from them not by much but just enough where maybe more GCD heals are needed either through tempo increase or raw damage increase. Yes, the vision is not clear and they should be more clear about it.

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.