#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Bobby66]

heck, I dont want to be a 'green dps'. all I want, is when things are going well, I can dps, which is fine, but healing should be something that I dont have to rely on bad groups for.

Yeah I do not want green dps either, and yeah it is a weird feeling when I am happy when I get a bad group I am happy as a healer, hell when I queue with friends I tell my buddy tank to remove gear and still go hard. We do fine that is were I got the idea about maybe lowering the overall DR of tanks without removing tools. It is fun to do, but I can also see such things stressing out players and while they stated they want some degree of stress idk if we will see that in normal mode content beyond what we are seeing ATM.

But healers already are green DPS, just a garbage one that keeps spamming one button.

Yes, but I don't see them adding more depth of a DPS rotation that requires some effort to execute based off that 2021 interview it seems they do not want healers to have to worry about doing good damage and good healing. So at best they give is more buttons to press but at the core what is different from 111111 and 123123.

As stated what makes a rotation fun is some aspect of building and spending. More utility focus would also be nice like old AST cards but those were removed for a reason. We cannot ignore that stuff was removed or changed for a reason. Any change will have an impact in another aspect. Say they add more complexity to rotations and class play. That would require adjustments with overall content and who knows how the overall community will take to that. This is not an easy fix for SE.

I agree. A toolkit shouldn't be limited to when a group isn't paying attention but help in such situations.
The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on tchaincs he Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

Exactly, like it or not things were changed or a reason. We need to keep remember this.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Yes, but I don't see them adding more depth of a DPS rotation that requires some effort to execute based off that 2021 interview it seems they do not want healers to have to worry about doing good damage and good healing. So at best they give is more buttons to press but at the core what is different from 111111 and 123123.

You could easily fit some of Bard's DPS kit to a Healer to give it some actual depth.

[Bobby66]

You could easily fit some of Bard's DPS kit to a Healer to give it some actual depth.

What I am saying is they removed that aspect for a reason in the past. Asking for it to be added again means we have to consider was the reason it was removed to begin with no longer a factor for the overall role or community?

Idk, just something we have to think about.

As an example I love old SMN, and would pay any amount of money to get it back but I understand it was removed for a reason and to request it back seems disingenuous without offering a solution that acknowledges why it was changed in the first place. That is what I am trying to say, hope it makes sense.

[IDontPetLalas]

What I am saying is they removed that aspect for a reason in the past. Asking for it to be added again means we have to consider was the reason it was removed to begin with no longer a factor for the overall role or community?

Idk, just something we have to think about.

As an example I love old SMN, and would pay any amount of money to get it back but I understand it was removed for a reason and to request it back seems disingenuous without offering a solution that acknowledges why it was changed in the first place. That is what I am trying to say, hope it makes sense.

I see your point, however there are also examples of skills that were removed with doubtful justification by Square- kaiten, or the baseless "SCHs are healing less than their WHM co-healer" (a fallacy by and large) which lead to multiple skills being removed from SCH. I could go on.

So no, we don't necessarily have to provide a justification or even a solution for what we want. It is is however fair to explain why we like or don't like specific changes.

[Bobby66]

I see your point, however there are also examples of skills that were removed with doubtful justification by Square- kaiten, or the baseless "SCHs are healing less than their WHM co-healer" (a fallacy by and large) which lead to multiple skills being removed from SCH. I could go on.

So no, we don't necessarily have to provide a justification or even a solution for what we want. It is is however fair to explain why we like or don't like specific changes.

Saying we have to was a wrong word choice but I do feel we should fairly show that said tools were removed for a reason, and if we want our fixes to be considered they probably should reflect to some degree.

Yes, they have not told in black and white the why for every change but does not take much to see that their job vision is to stream line. So best chance at a change to be taken to heart is to keep that in mind. Imo.

It's not so much about a role not being for everyone, but them constantly whittling a role down and not replacing it with anything.
While damage for now in DT isn't actually completely negligible, it will have to be seen how much of it remains after people gear up... A lot of attacks from bosses are generally completely avoidable, and extremely punishing if you do get hit. This creates a situation where you only heal when people stand in AoEs, or just have to move straight to raising them.

And what unavoidable damage there is, is often completely manageable with little to no work from a Healer.


And thus, by Square's own design, Healers shouldn't Heal. But they refuse to give Healers anything else.

What I am saying is people do seem to enjoy healers as they are. If the role was void of players changes woule have happened already by nature of needing to fix there being no healers in queue.

[Rolder50]

Yes, but I don't see them adding more depth of a DPS rotation that requires some effort to execute based off that 2021 interview it seems they do not want healers to have to worry about doing good damage and good healing. So at best they give is more buttons to press but at the core what is different from 111111 and 123123.

They can say whatever they want, but at the end of the day, Savage bosses and above have DPS checks that REQUIRE the healer to contribute to DPS.

[Bobby66]

They can say whatever they want, but at the end of the day, Savage bosses and above have DPS checks that REQUIRE the healer to contribute to DPS.

And savage and ult prog have plenty of enagagement as a healer imo. Thought this was about normal content. I dont think anyone can say savage and ult at the very least prog is devoid of engagment or skill expression.

[PercibelTheren]

And savage and ult prog have plenty of enagagement as a healer imo. Thought this was about normal content. I dont think anyone can say savage and ult at the very least prog is devoid of engagment or skill expression.

I mean, the complaint has been that Savage is only fun during prog, right? Nobody is denying that progging is engaging but that's only because things are going wrong and you're still figuring out the fight. Once your group optimizes it, you're back to spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis and throwing out an OGCd every raidwide, conveniently timed exactly for you to have your big CDs up each time.

[Bobby66]

I mean, the complaint has been that Savage is only fun during prog, right? Nobody is denying that progging is engaging but that's only because things are going wrong and you're still figuring out the fight. Once your group optimizes it, you're back to spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis and throwing out an OGCd every raidwide, conveniently timed exactly for you to have your big CDs up each time.

Isn't that true for most content in any game once it is figured out it loses it's luster? I play in bursts when it comes to pve content get my clear, maybe try for some speed runs and back to WoW I go. Only content I go back to long term is WoW arena.

I'm not sure why it's disingenuous to ask for something we enjoy to come back?

This is a game, we play it to have fun, if we no longer have fun after changes, we are within our rights to ask for those changes to be reverted. That's not entitlement, that's not disingenuous, that's just feedback.

I say it is disingenuous because people clearly find currently healers fun or still play them. If current healer playstyle was as bad as people here have made it out to be on a large scale healers probably would have been changed just the by the nature of not having enough healers to complete content. Queues times would be horrible across the board, groups would be waiting for hours to find healers. They are extreme examples but you catch my point.

It is okay to want something back, but at the same time I think we need to acknowledge that people clearly do enjoy healers as they are. Maybe even more people like healers that don't like healers. That is why I say it is disingenuous, like I said I loved old smn, and I am sure many others did but alas more people like current smn so no point asking for old smn to come back.

Logically just seems to tract that for whatever reason people like healers as they are. So any change that is likely to happen I think has to happen within the current scope of healer design whatever that means to SE.

[Rolder50]

And savage and ult prog have plenty of enagagement as a healer imo. Thought this was about normal content. I dont think anyone can say savage and ult at the very least prog is devoid of engagment or skill expression.

Nope, even in Savage and Ultimate, you will still be spending 75%+ of your GCDs on damage. If you weren't, you would just be standing around picking your nose.