#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Shurrikhan]

I see so many people bash the old systems like TP and Cleric Stance or even tank stances without ever experiencing them. But I'd wager that the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't care how easy or hard a job plays and will play it regardless because they like the aesthetics/design.

I can't think of any time I've heard complaints about those systems from those who've used them. Usually, instead, it's blind optimism. I have heard dozens of well-justified complaints by those who did use/optimize around them, though...

And I think what often gets lost in the discussion is how badly matters are conflated, i.e., the singular good part of a past system element vs. its holistic merit.

Take TP for instance. We may associate it with things like Paladin wanting to alternate between Total Eclipse spam and self-healing in large pulls in Stormblood as not to run out of TP or MP, with Warrior having an opportunity cost for its self-heal (if and only if it was somehow the sole physical damage-dealer in its group), with casters having additional mobility through an effectively-no-cost Sprint to make up for not having the likes of Spineshatter, Shukuchi, or Shoulder Tackle, or physical jobs having a sharp limit to how much AoE they could put out and therefore what was nearly a doom timer double-physical-DPS dungeon pulls, etc., but those are more coincidence than part-and-parcel of TP, the main effect of which was simply to give physical damage dealers a less-leveraged, less-choiceful, less-relevant, and more-constrictive MP analog. Each benefit could be better achieved separate from putting physical jobs on a very limited, Attack Speed-punishing battery life.

Now, we could look at what was successful among iterations of MP, such as Ruin III on HW Summoner and how it created a much more substantial opportunity cost for SMN raises, reducing how much they'd have to pre-pay for their utility and therefore its burden on output in situations that did not need that raise. Perhaps something similar could have been done with TP, whereby one would have both net-negative and net-positive phases, the timings and lengths of which would depend on fight length. But that, too, would cost button-slots to then each be applicable to certain situations that could otherwise be spent on rotational depth usable in a far greater breadth of situations. SSS for mitigating the losses of melee-downtime? Spent instead on your high-TP-cost nuke that you use before first Invigorate and not again until the last expected minute of the fight. Etc., etc. Such "additions" from those lost systems or their reimaginings need to be seen in/through net value, not in isolation.

Or, take Enmity manipulation as it was implemented.

Start with the tanks. Up to 6 tank skills (7 if including ranged enmity attacks, 8 if considering that the "dps stance" could otherwise have been the default / a passive), 1 of which was used on CD in a circle-shirk, another used before the other's longer CD, and 4-6 more used only for the fight's opener and never again. It was bloated, to say the least. Again, we could revitalize this, but consider: to what end? What did we want to achieve by using discrete combos and oGCD CDs (over, say, fewer, more dynamic skills)? Or, if the point was just discrete actions in any form, why use discrete actions over, say, the timing of generic, more bankable oGCDs, the positioning from which to throw them out, etc.?

Or, far worse, consider its place on non-tanks. A CD to hit on CD. And if a single player lacks this CD or fails to hit it, all other players' hitting their CDs is wasted since the tank needs to waste their would-be rDPS to keep Enmity off the outlier.

:: Granted, we should probably also consider "Enmity" itself as implemented still to this day. Did we really want a single-metric nondecaying threat table over, say, impermanent targeting weights? Certainly, having some way to manipulate targeting is good, but Enmity as implemented so far has not only replaced opportunities for far greater net depth (via kiting, CC, directly blocking) but has done shockingly little to leverage itself. (Not that XIV's threat system is unique in that regard. Just worth pointing out for fairness to earlier attempts.)

Etc., etc.

[Azurarok]

Honestly, I do believe that if players who joined after ShB had the opportunity to try the HW/SB kits, most of them would probably realise it's not as bad as they thought.

I see so many people bash the old systems like TP and Cleric Stance or even tank stances without ever experiencing them. But I'd wager that the majority of the playerbase simply doesn't care how easy or hard a job plays and will play it regardless because they like the aesthetics/design.

I'd love to try it if I had the chance. The older card systems and time dilation, all of the dots, stance dancing, actual pet management, mage BRD, gauss barrel MCH. The whole Award Winning Heavensward Expansion

[Tigore]

The TP system had its weaknesses too back then. All the physical DPS had an ability or two to regen TP, but it was only enough to maintain single target. AoE was quite thirsty on TP and you would eventually run out mid pull if your DPS partner still insisted on using single target. Sprint also emptied the TP bar too >.>

[Rolder50]

I’d love to see some HW/SB type healer gameplay, whether it’s a private server or just the devs finally fixing the current state of healers. Sadly both options are exceptionally unlikely.

[Wolf_Necros]

Just wanted to post that people are refusing to heal and tanks won't voke when I'm tanking. I admit I'm not that good but I try to mitigate as best as I can and it's getting really annoying when I'm trying to get the mounts. I feel like I'm being blocked or people are gatekeeping certain classes at this point so I'm verry much fed up with this healer strike. FYI I have played the healer classes and at no point have I said welp I'm going to que for it and just dps.

[Sharawiwi]

Do you have any of these magical screenshots. Because all you have done in the last like 4 weeks on this thread is go “your anecdotes are meaningless and your data is flawed……but also here is my anecdote that is totally meaningful and is why I represent the silent majority that agrees with me”

God I feel like Im talking to renrathas again

Everyone should /ignore Striker, he's just a big talking pile of crap, the thread is way more bearable when you don't have to read his nonsensical stupidity every 50 pages.

Just wanted to post that people are refusing to heal and tanks won't voke when I'm tanking. I admit I'm not that good but I try to mitigate as best as I can and it's getting really annoying when I'm trying to get the mounts. I feel like I'm being blocked or people are gatekeeping certain classes at this point so I'm verry much fed up with this healer strike. FYI I have played the healer classes and at no point have I said welp I'm going to que for it and just dps.

I will summarize it for you (and it will serve as a reference for future complainers) :
-1 : SE dumbs down healer jobs for 5 consecutive years, up to DT where the 4 jobs are carbon copies of each other, are extremely easy to play and have 0 room for skill expression and optimisation. And, in the same motion, they make healers irrelevant for any content outside ultimate/critrerion (M4S no healers no lb no gcd heal clear week 2).

-2 : Veteran healers bail out of a role that nowaday brings them nothing at all, either with the healer strike, or simply silently quitting (because tbh the state of the game is unbearable, I've left, many have left, and amongst the players I know still on the game, they are all using trusts and never DF anymore).

-3 : In DT, the vast majority of healers you'll encounter will be either/both lazy incompetent players, because by designing a job for single brain cell amoeba SE attracted a certain type of players to the role, or off role players (mainly DPS) who only see healers as a "fast queue without responsibilities".

It's both SE and these people who are the problem, not the healer strike, which only aimed to draw attention to this massive issue (which it did spectacularly well).


P. S. : Unless you're playing DRK, you mentionned farming mounts so I can assume you're talking about current EX and Savage, either pick up healer so healing isn't a problem or get better at tanking, because you litteraly don't need help to tank the current content. And if you have a TB swap and your cotank isn't voking ? Just invuln lmao, it's not like you need it anywhere else.

[Kes13a]

Just wanted to post that people are refusing to heal and tanks won't voke when I'm tanking. I admit I'm not that good but I try to mitigate as best as I can and it's getting really annoying when I'm trying to get the mounts. I feel like I'm being blocked or people are gatekeeping certain classes at this point so I'm verry much fed up with this healer strike. FYI I have played the healer classes and at no point have I said welp I'm going to que for it and just dps.

this question would be better asked of Striker44 actually (no relation to any strikers) who has the very pulse of the majority in their hands. They do not wish to add any skill to the game for healers so everyone and anyone can queue up as a healer and, well, not heal. As for tanking, I cant speak for him, but you might also ask him if he is against tanks needing to learn things as well. So yes, please ask of Striker44 why a general majority of the people he represents in full voice.... refuse or unable to do their job.

on a side note... you may not queue up as a healer to dps... but.. what are you mainly doing? anyway.. the people supporting the strike are generally NOT doing group content as healers. sorry you experienced that, but if you do, report it. but I doubt it was someone supporting changes to healers.

[Wolf_Necros]

this question would be better asked of Striker44 actually (no relation to any strikers) who has the very pulse of the majority in their hands. They do not wish to add any skill to the game for healers so everyone and anyone can queue up as a healer and, well, not heal. As for tanking, I cant speak for him, but you might also ask him if he is against tanks needing to learn things as well. So yes, please ask of Striker44 why a general majority of the people he represents in full voice.... refuse or unable to do their job.

on a side note... you may not queue up as a healer to dps... but.. what are you mainly doing? anyway.. the people supporting the strike are generally NOT doing group content as healers. sorry you experienced that, but if you do, report it. but I doubt it was someone supporting changes to healers.

Who are you even talking about????

[Shurrikhan]

this question would be better asked of Striker44 actually

Who are you even talking about????

I'm going to hazard a guess that it's Striker44. As in the poster by that name on this thread.