#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Shurrikhan]

I still don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand that higher healing requirements doesn't preclude a better damage kit and vice versa. Why do people always have to come in and say "No, I want A! I don't want B!" when A and B can coexist just fine (and did coexist just fine in Stormblood).

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally find 'Cure x 9 > Medica > Repeat' as boring as 'Glare x 11 > Dia > Repeat'.

It is. I mean, it's just the equivalent of filler attack, banked-damage attack, filler AoE, and banked-damage AoE. They're no more interesting than any other variety of otherwise dull actions. Mixed up, they're maybe okay; imbalanced (spamming just Medica between Medica IIs for 8-man content or Cure IIs between Regens for 4-man content -- if AoEs were ever nerfed enough not to be the spam for everything), they're boring.

But at least if we had to use both healing and attack GCDs frequently, that variety could be doubled. Mix in priority conflicts within time constraints, moreover, and those individually dull actions get some decent optimization depth in context.

[Mortex]

Welp this is my third clear of M4S


You lied to me.

Watch them come around and say you are an elitist and a way too good player so ofc it’s easy for you. Had that one and some other classics since the start of this thread

[Benji41]

Ya know it baffles me to see players (actual Healer mains) try to defend a job that is really so........irrelevant. I mean take a look at the other support role, Tank. Compare the number of Duties that can be completed without a Tank with those that can be completed without a Healer. It's sad imo. Don't get me wrong, I love a Healer that really cranks out damage in a Dungeon, but if the role restrictions were removed, 3 DPS and 1 Tank would be so much faster (most of the time). I was tanking a dungeon with two melee DPS the other day and the healer died pretty early in one of the boss fights and we still cleared with no issues. This actually made me feel bad for the Healer just laying there dead for 8 minutes or so. Of course I have no idea how to fix this, I just know it needs some attention

[Tigore]

@Benji41

I have had a similar case happen with a first 95 boss clear while the healer was dead. The "bubbles" took out the healer and other DPS, but our tank was a WAR. They used Nascent Flash on me using MCH and everything was fine. I did try to use Dismantle and Tactician to help a little bit too. Not sure if the other two players were mad or not, but I did see the light rod emote used to "cheer" for us outside the seal border, lol.

A PLD tank would likely have a similar result. Just replace Nascent Flash with Clemency. GNB might be able to pull it off with Aurora HoTs since I was keeping out of
a lot of the avoidable stuff.

Probably the best "fix" for this would be 2 part. The healing potencies of the mentioned abilities above will have to be dropped down a bit with slightly longer cooldowns introduced. Since the cooldown might make Clemency suck more doing no personal damage, it might need a counter buff to kind of make it DPS neutral by increasing the DPS dealt for the ally target and / or themselves. Possibly have the DPS buff trigger if actual healing happened with overheals not counting? Needs discussion if this might be alright.

[Sharawiwi]

@Benji41

I have had a similar case happen with a first 95 boss clear while the healer was dead. The "bubbles" took out the healer and other DPS, but our tank was a WAR. They used Nascent Flash on me using MCH and everything was fine. I did try to use Dismantle and Tactician to help a little bit too. Not sure if the other two players were mad or not, but I did see the light rod emote used to "cheer" for us outside the seal border, lol.

A PLD tank would likely have a similar result. Just replace Nascent Flash with Clemency. GNB might be able to pull it off with Aurora HoTs since I was keeping out of
a lot of the avoidable stuff.

Probably the best "fix" for this would be 2 part. The healing potencies of the mentioned abilities above will have to be dropped down a bit with slightly longer cooldowns introduced. Since the cooldown might make Clemency suck more doing no personal damage, it might need a counter buff to kind of make it DPS neutral by increasing the DPS dealt for the ally target and / or themselves. Possibly have the DPS buff trigger if actual healing happened with overheals not counting? Needs discussion if this might be alright.

Even in EW it was possible with a GNB & 3 DPS to do every 90 dungeons, thanks to corindon's heart , a 900 potency heal every 25% and a mitigation, activating either at 50% or at the end of cooldown, which you can cast on someone else.
Now it's even better, with nebuale as GNB you're truly immortal, I don't really know why we don't hear as much about it compared to WAr, because it can definitely do the same in the hand of a competent player, maybe it's because GNB is a hard job to play relative to WAR.

[Striker44]

@Benji41

I have had a similar case happen with a first 95 boss clear while the healer was dead. The "bubbles" took out the healer and other DPS, but our tank was a WAR. They used Nascent Flash on me using MCH and everything was fine. I did try to use Dismantle and Tactician to help a little bit too. Not sure if the other two players were mad or not, but I did see the light rod emote used to "cheer" for us outside the seal border, lol.

A PLD tank would likely have a similar result. Just replace Nascent Flash with Clemency. GNB might be able to pull it off with Aurora HoTs since I was keeping out of
a lot of the avoidable stuff.

Probably the best "fix" for this would be 2 part. The healing potencies of the mentioned abilities above will have to be dropped down a bit with slightly longer cooldowns introduced. Since the cooldown might make Clemency suck more doing no personal damage, it might need a counter buff to kind of make it DPS neutral by increasing the DPS dealt for the ally target and / or themselves. Possibly have the DPS buff trigger if actual healing happened with overheals not counting? Needs discussion if this might be alright.

I think an important point to note is that from SE's perspective, what you're describing here is seen as a success, not a problem. One of the things they've emphasized is avoiding the existence of a "single point of failure" in casual content. If the Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe, that is the problematic scenario in the dev team's view. A tank and DPS being able to use their abilities to finish the fight even without being able to rez the Healer is seen as a good thing in that level of content. Any one of us can agree or disagree with that viewpoint, but I think it's important to understand and accept that it is a core part of the dev team's philosophy. Asking them to make tweaks within that philosophy stands a much better of chance of being taken into consideration over asking them to fundamentally change their philosophy itself.

There is one very simple reason why no healer runs aren't more widespread:

Non-standard clears don't show up on the main page of the funny number website.

I'd say nah. The simplest reason no-healer runs aren't more widespread is that they're much more difficult to pull off, and even when they are, it's not as efficient. Only a very small % of the playerbase is capable of doing those kinds of runs.

[Aravell]

One of the things they've emphasized is avoiding the existence of a "single point of failure" in casual content.

This isn't exactly correct. Their design aim is actually to remove friction from the party, which, yes, removing the healer being a point of failure works towards this goal.

But now, what do you suppose would happen if the tank soloing the boss while the party is dead were to start causing some friction within the party? I think we may yet see some changes coming.

[Benji41]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

[Alice_Rivers]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

I know there are those who advocate for the removal of ALL healing from every job that isn't a healer, I consider that an extreme position, others have pointed out that if dps couldn't heal at all then pretty much every solo duty would have to be retested to ensure they could finish it. So I do think there is room for a point where a party that actively uses what limited heals it has should be able to do a bit, like surviving a raidwide and/or a stack so that if you play well you might beat 15-20% of a boss absent a healer depending on how mechs and raidwide damage play out. That way it's not overly punishing if everyone's doing well but the healer slips up, though if a healer really can't do that much (especially at level 80+) kicking them should be the team's right.

[GartredZW]

I understand your point but there has to be some middle ground between "Healer dying automatically meant the whole group had to wipe" and "It doesn't really matter if the Healer is alive"

What if players could use Phoenix Downs in normal content?
They could even make the Phoenix Down a General Action like sprint or limit break. It could have a long cast time that can't be swiftcast, just to make sure it's not better than a Healer res in any way. For good measure, have it cost 50% of your HP to use, and have a three minute cooldown.