#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Shurrikhan]

Concerning the homogenization of healer jobs, this is not a healer unique issue.

<< "I've been shot in a main artery. Without aid, I'll bleed out."
>> "Quiet, you. Other people are dying, too, you know."

And even if you don't heal, the additional DPS you provide will help kill things faster.

The thing is, it's far from an "even if". Healing is the tiny minority of your uptime as a healer unless running MiNE Extremes or the like. Dealing damage... is the vast majority. So why don't we have accordant means of engagement therein? It wouldn't take as nearly much as on a DPS, as we still have other considerations and uses of uptime beyond damage dealing, but that damage-dealing certainly should have more available to it than we have now.

I get that it's a protest, but the protest seems rather weak and isn't rooted in reality in terms of what the game is trying to achieve.

The promises for the game, such as being able to have fun on each role, doesn't seem rooted in reality in terms of what the game currently achieves, either.

And frankly, I'm appalled by some of the behavior I've heard and witnessed regarding those participating in the strike who do queue as healer. Being rude, demanding, and straight up just leaving dungeons because oh no, the tank is doing the final boss on their own because you (collective you) and everyone else died?

You know full well that leaving a dungeon when a tank PKs their healer only to then insist on taking 7 minutes to solo a final boss that'd have been dead in 3 by just resetting has absolutely nothing to do with the healer strike.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

Snow and Shurrikhan,

I really commend your patience to answer to all this non sense. I don't know where you find the strength to achieve that.

Sadly, I already expect a dismissive answer from the other side, in the same passive agressive way they started their posts.

They didn't even take the time to try to understand our points and rejected all existing datas from the beginning in the name of "Since I have fun, you must have fun too, if not, you're bad people".

[TheDustyOne]

I got a 7 day ban for calling someone narcissistic. First and only time I have been banned from these forums and that is the only comment that was removed. So yeah I'm going to say mass reporting shenanigans because I didn't 100% support the strike.

Square doesn't remove based on automation; it doesn't matter how many times someone gets reported, if the moderators don't find you at fault they leave the post up. The fact you resorted to calling someone a narcissist is enough for them to slap you with a ban. No mass report required, and if you're going to accuse people of mass reporting, you need more evidence than "well, I got banned for name calling when I called someone a name".

[Kes13a]

Snow and Shurrikhan,

I really commend your patience to answer to all this non sense. I don't know where you find the strength to achieve that.

Sadly, I already expect a dismissive answer from the other side, in the same passive agressive way they started their posts.

They didn't even take the time to try to understand our points and rejected all existing datas from the beginning in the name of "Since I have fun, you must have fun too, if not, you're bad people".

not just bad, but egotistical elitists for asking for fun.

the ONLY difference is, instead of being quiet sheep and not having fun on healers, we are joining queues as one of the two new dps classes, or leveling other jobs. this time instead of not announcing it, we have announced it. just like everyone else. how dare we.

we are horrible people for not making queues pop faster. I am glad there are those that are healing in my absence, it makes my queues as a dps pop faster, my queues as a tank pop faster. so, thanks. the only difference this time is... you can point at us and say we ARE having fun.

[Local_Custard]

Concerning the homogenization of healer jobs, this is not a healer unique issue. This is a problem with tanks. This is a problem with DPS. And we won't even get into crafting and gathering. DPS use the same heccin 1-2-3 combo all over the place with a few things thrown in the mix. Tanks? 1-2-3 mitigate. It's all a matter of what flavor you wanna do.

With the low threat level, I dunno man, like, change doesn't come quick and looking at DT, I do like where it's going so far. They definitely ramped it up, and I get that this is a strike because of Endwalker and previous expansions, however... bearing in mind that change doesn't come quickly, it would be worth noting (tying in the above point) that Yoshi P has mentioned a desire to tweak classes to make them less homogenized, and therefore more interesting to play. That will likely in turn result in more difficult mechs within dungeons and such.

Healers are a support class. There is a reason why Meteor hasn't been depicted as a healer. We are support. We do what we can to support the party in heals and shielding. And we do damage when we can when healing isn't necessary. I don't personally get why folks are so upset that healer isn't being given many dps buttons. I figure if you want to dps, then play a dps. But this healer strike feels more like an ego move and development of a god complex. I think the biggest take away too is to remember that we are part of a team. Healers most certainly do have a place. Okay so what if your tank can literally run the dungeon by himself? What about your dps? They certainly can't. And even if you don't heal, the additional DPS you provide will help kill things faster.

I will not partake in the healer strike, I'm gonna play the game as a healer because it's a game and I want to have fun. I get that it's a protest, but the protest seems rather weak and isn't rooted in reality in terms of what the game is trying to achieve.

Finally, I personally see the role of healer as a doctor of sorts. Do no harm. This protest frankly does harm not only to those who are trying to play and causing queues to be high, but it also makes the collective healer community look elitist and frankly... really... egotistic. And frankly, I'm appalled by some of the behavior I've heard and witnessed regarding those participating in the strike who do queue as healer. Being rude, demanding, and straight up just leaving dungeons because oh no, the tank is doing the final boss on their own because you (collective you) and everyone else died? Not cool. It's just a game and isn't that serious friends.

Wow I didn't know tanks had malefic spam! :0

Maybe I'll think of that next time I see a WAR eat a fat stack of 8 vulns and slip on a banana peel after focussing on that juicy 1 button spam (Fell cleave). Maybe when I log in I'll see if gun breaker only gets 1 button of dmg and 20 buttons of mit! Tanks mit they don't damage! what do you mean they have damager rotations, they're blue! Clearly you haven't read the tooltips. Tooltip 1: button no longer exists please delete
Dragoon? Pssshhhh! You just jump and- oh that was the edge. oops.
Red mage? hah! I only have the absolute premium res mage- why am I falling?

So let's see your points are (taking into account the first part of your response)
-healer strikers want to gatekeep (gaslight? girlboss? owo)
-we have an ego for asking for more
-tanks do mega effort to live (wow!) so they NEED healer
-healers are valued for the lb3 and the most skilled of healers raise tanks and live
-dungeons are baby mode because casuals get overwhelmed easily
-dps have barely any sustain
-we should be cheery if the tank manages to kill the boss. we should be THANKFUL because we FAILED! Even if we wait behind the barrier for 10 sometimes 15 minutes!
-dps have have 1-2-3 rotations so we shouldn't complain because homogenization is applied everywhere
-change doesn't come quick
-John Fantasy isn't ever depicted as healer because it is support and he cannot be support because we are support
-Go play dps! Healer cannot have dps! Such big egos! No! Go back to your [key 1] spam, peasant! God complex- all of you have god complex!
-this is a team game so know your place
-tank cannot go without healer. Tank cannot solo. Tank cannot...
-have you considered your dps kills things faster?
-doctor do no harm. healer do no dps.
-it's just a game! Why so serious?

I'll have to be honest. You are just missing one small point:
-unsubscribe. leave the game
If you said that I would have a full bingo. Alas, I'll have to look elsewhere for that chip. I don't pay your sub so I cannot tell you what to do. I do appreciate the comment because it bumps the thread so that is still supporting the cause. Might I ask you why you see people earnestly asking for better gameplay as egotistical and god complex-y?

To respond to your points...
-Our request is to raise the skill ceiling. The strike is made up of players from a variety of skill levels. We have penta-legends and ultra-casuals. Midcore raiders and sprouts. Don't you think it would be healthier for the game to have healers that can accommodate a variety of playstyles, healers for newbies, and healers designed for people who enjoy rubbing a couple of braincells together and planning ahead? key 1 button with the occasional DoT and dps key every 2 minutes isn't that riveting gameplay. Healers should be more unique among each other. Right now it feels like we barely have 2 healers- scholar and white mage.
-Everyone has an ego. You have an ego, I have an ego, your friends and my friends have egos. Let's not get it twisted. An ego holds a person's sense of self and sense of importance. A healthy ego helps with mental health. Though, ego health varies from person to person. The human condition is in every human. What does that say about what you are saying when you use ego as an insult?
-Have you played the game lately? Tanks can solo most content. People have been running healer-less runs for crying out loud. That is not healthy for a trinity. The worse part? It is faster! Healers have low dps so they slow down parties. What healers can heal can be found in paladin, tank, and gunbreaker. It can be found in dps like summoners to a lesser extent and pictomancer too. The trinity in this game is broken. I'm sure you have watched tanks solo bosses from 50% of more of the boss's hp and survive to see it reach 0%. tanks don't need us and that is the problem. Warrior and paladin aren't hard to play. I honestly prefer harder tanks like gunbreaker because I feel like I go insane when left idle. I don't even like tanking. Ask anyone who plays a tank more than me and you may find WAR to be the easiest of all and someone who has played it for 3 hours could solo a lot of content.
-There is no arguing that healer lb3 is strong. It is great for picking up parties. It isn't in every single content, however. That makes it less consistent. Not only that, but an lb3 may be better served on a dps unless the content specifically has a mechanic that calls for it. That isn't going to be very often. If you want to talking about ressing on healers wait till you realize red mage is the king of raising with their instant casts. Sure, they'll take a hit to their dps and their mp but mp is barely a concern anymore. Raising doesn't take much skill. Do you know what does take skill? coordinating among healers in a tankless run for agro management. But SE is real quick to patch that out when they catch wind their precious tanks aren't required.
-Maybe for the first or second run of that instance. This game is very scripted. Who are we kidding? Don't underestimate sprouts.
-Depends on the dps. You bring up ranged dps and my counter for that is dancer. We have summoner. We also have pictomancer. Bloodbath is more powerful than you give it credit.
-Maybe don't tell people who to feel when the tank solos bosses?
-Yet unless you are a summoner, you have variety in your buttons. Even summoner has more to do than healers with their dps. What do healers have? They have their basic damage button, a dot... and maybe the occasional burst damage button. Now, even with that occasional dps button nothing really changes. You will be using your singular damage button on repeat for the whole fight because the game has low healing requirements outside of accidental damage.
-I agree with you there. Change tends to be slow. Until the devs find out about nonstandard rotations... then it just takes a week or just days.
-More than anything it is quite telling you are defending the fact Meteor hasn't been seen in any healer roles. Your reasoning says a lot. If I am getting this right, you see healers and support as being incapable of being main characters. Yeah sure, push us to the background while we make the game fun for everyone else.
-The above point also responds to your point about the team aspect. The game barely feels like a multi-player experience anymore. Dps are very detached from the team. Tanks can solo. and healers? Healers continue to get stripped of anything fun. Just look at what they did to Sage's new DoT.
-Maybe you should play WAR before assuming tanks cannot solo anything
-have you considered 3 pictomancers and 1 tank is faster than 2 pictomancers, 1 healer, and 1 tank?
-Then why are you saying healers help kill things faster? If we can do no harm then why did you say healers kill things faster?
-People are passionate. Are you going to tell people to not get angry because of the plot in a book because it is just a book? Much like any piece of media, ffxiv deserves to be criticized. Constructive criticism is a tool to improve things. The strike is a criticism of ffxiv's battle systems, especially how healers have been designed.

[Kazumi_Ametrine]

> Might I ask you why you see people earnestly asking for better gameplay as egotistical and god complex-y?

Out of all the things in that wall of text, I think perhaps I'll answer this first. It is egotistical to ask to fundamentally change the game to suit one role. It isn't better gameplay that's desired, the desire is to have the game changed to better fit how you feel that healer should be, never mind how any one else might feel about it. Sure, let's go ahead and add a full on 1-2-3 damage combo for healers, on top of the fact that we need to heal in higher difficulty content. No thank you. You trade one problem for another essentially. That's not to say that I couldn't do it, I most certainly would be quite capable. But the gatekeeping comes from wanting to make healing more difficult and the end result being, that people who don't want to do it just say nope and leave healing behind.

Another thing about the ego trip is the lack of accountability that strikers seem to have. The bad behavior I mentioned, it's funny how out of that which I mentioned, the whole "tank soloing for 7 minutes and healer leaving has nothing to do with the healer strike" was what was focused on. It does when said healer leaves #healerstrike in the chat before leaving. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and further shows the ego and entitlement that folks seem to have. And there's no acknowledgement of the bad behavior, it's just waived off as nothing more than "healers are pissed." Sorry, that doesn't justify said behavior in my book. That's not healthy ego, that's anger directed at people who don't deserve it with an overinflated sense of self importance.

-Our request is to raise the skill ceiling.
This was done in DT. At least in my opinion it was, I was taken rather off guard by the increase in difficulty for the dungeons. Maybe that'll change, maybe not. But even incremental change is good. And of course things are scripted, it's what allows for the dungeons to be completed in a reasonable time without being crazy difficult.

[Kazumi_Ametrine]

-Have you played the game lately? Tanks can solo most content. People have been running healer-less runs for crying out loud. That is not healthy for a trinity. The worse part? It is faster! Healers have low dps so they slow down parties... [truncated for length]

Ten years and going. I remember protect and stoneskin. I remember Aero III. What's funny is I seem to recall a time where healers were upset that they were expected to DPS, especially in Stormblood. Which of course prompted SE to make the changes that have been made, and now suddenly we want everything back when we got what was asked for. History quickly seems to be forgotten here.

-More than anything it is quite telling you are defending the fact Meteor hasn't been seen in any healer roles. Your reasoning says a lot. If I am getting this right, you see healers and support as being incapable of being main characters. Yeah sure, push us to the background while we make the game fun for everyone else.

This is not what I meant, but I can see how you reached this conclusion. We do get some pretty cool moments, though maybe not as much as it would be nice to have. The saving the raid at the last moment and bringing everyone back right before everyone wipes when we're only 10% on the boss? Pretty great. And it would be nice to see a main character for healers, though I struggle to see how this can be accomplished. Though prove me wrong on that, I'd genuinely love to see it c: I will however point out for those who do have healing classes unlocked and leveled, they do have special cutscenes to recognize your role as one and are called upon as such. So, I suppose that does help with the main character aspect.

I feel like much of my points raised are frankly taken over the top and words are being put in my mouth that I never said, so I'm not going to address them further. The do no harm bit refers to the way not only how we heal folks, but also how we should treat them. Clearly we must have a means of self defense. Being rude, being angry at people who have honestly done nothing to you, and just up and leaving dungeons because oh no, the tank is soloing. Yes it's slow, yes it can be annoying, but honestly, it's not that big of a deal. I'm not sure a 30 minute cool down at the end of a dungeon is really worth trying to make a point that frankly, those in the dungeon are going to shrug off entirely and just label you as impatient.

I'm not going to go over every point listed here. Frankly my energy is best placed elsewhere. But I will say simply this: were this a strike that was conducted in a civil and reasonable manner, sure I could support that. But when all I have seen from the strike is bad behavior (it's entirely possible this could be an aberration and simply bad luck on my part, I will admit), it's frankly going to skew this very badly for me, which is why I can't support it. Some of the points made? Sure. But not this strike. Not with how folks have acted, sorry.

[Supersnow845]

I still don’t understand why the trinity is so horribly broken that we are at at the point of tanks soloing the boss being the average experience in a first time leveling dungeon and you choose to blame that on the healer strike and not the fact that tanks are so disgustingly overtuned that it leads to this

I don’t want to sit around and watch someone else play the game for the simple reason they survived because they take 80% less damage than me and they only survived because of that, not because they are a better player than me. I’m not going to leave or post healer strike btw (mostly because I dont play healer in DT) but I understand the frustration. It isn’t fun to watch other people play the game for you. Why is the healer leaving bad behaviour but the tank ignoring the calls to wipe to do it themselves not.

This seems to be a problem with wider opposition to the strike, everything negative that can possibly be attributed to healers is and tanks get off Scot free. Leaving a dungeon in annoyance because the tank won’t let you play the game is far less egregious than the tank not letting you play the game


As for people being rude in this thread, if people didn’t open their comments with fire and vitriol then maybe people would be more civil. How often do you see a striker open with vitriol rather than someone going “just my two cents but yall shit and garbage”

[Striker44]

Remember you are worthless healer mains the strike means nothing. Just play a different role.
Also stop being selfish and play healer you're purposely griefing peoples roles I want my DPS queues to be lower.
Also you're all elitist and not thinking about casual players and also your parses show you're bad and casual at the game so we don't need your opinions.
No I will not be playing healer that role sucks why are you telling me to?

Am I missing any?

You're seeing contradictory things like this because the people supporting the strike are so disorganized and all over the place. Some people follow the "manifesto" and stridently claim the goal is to convince the dev team to make fundamental changes to the game. Others ignore the very "manifesto" they're signing and say it's not about changing anything at all. Even among those calling for change, some want healers to be given full DPS rotations, others want fights to have more damage to heal, yet another group wants the other roles (tanks in particular) to have less self-sustain, and even more groups want various combinations of those things. When you see counterpoints being made to the various contradictory claims, of course those counterpoints will themselves seem contradictory. It's just a reflection of how much of a mess this "strike" thing is.

I'm "opposed" to the strike for two reasons. First, if you go by what the actual "manifesto" says and the goal is to fundamentally change the game, well, I like healing how it is right now. When I want an involved DPS rotation, I'll play a DPS class. If I want something kinda "in-between," I'll tank. I don't play a healer to go through DPS rotations. Now, if the sole goal was to increase the amount of damage being done so that we'd have "more to heal," I could potentially get behind that. But the "goal" of the strike is so all over the place, I can't have any confidence that's the direction things would ultimately goal.

Second, if you ignore the "manifesto" and take people at their word claiming the "strike" is not about changing anything, then it gets reduced to just people with a diva complex and a desperate desire to be the center of attention. It's where the argument of "if you don't like healing...just...don't heal" that pops up frequently in here comes from. Because those supporting the "strike" aren't just switching to other roles; they're insisting on shouting it from the proverbial rooftops so that everyone knows. If the goal isn't to promote a change and is all about just calling attention to yourself, that's immature, and deserves to go nowhere.

I'll continue playing my fun jobs while you can enjoy your one button spam.

Comments like this supplement the above. People who can't fathom that others might enjoy playing a role that one personally doesn't find fun. (Hint: Play DF with random people and you'll be doing plenty of healing.)

But I will say simply this: were this a strike that was conducted in a civil and reasonable manner, sure I could support that. But when all I have seen from the strike is bad behavior (it's entirely possible this could be an aberration and simply bad luck on my part, I will admit),

Trust me, you don't just have "bad luck." Those supporting the strike are a whole ball of condescension and belittling. Case in point - earlier in this thread I pointed out that since DT started I've needed to heal even more than usual. The first reply to it was a "strike" supporter insinuating it somehow meant I was a bad healer, and not one person called him out on it (but plenty of supporters "liked" that kind of response - nevermind how non-sensical it even is). These are the types of people pushing this thing.

[Aravell]

Ten years and going. I remember protect and stoneskin. I remember Aero III. What's funny is I seem to recall a time where healers were upset that they were expected to DPS, especially in Stormblood. Which of course prompted SE to make the changes that have been made, and now suddenly we want everything back when we got what was asked for. History quickly seems to be forgotten here.

You are aware that the playerbase is not a hivemind, yes?

The people that asked to not have to do damage are not the same people who are asking for more damage options now.

> Group A asked to not have to do damage, group B is currently enjoying the healer role.
> SE changes the gameplay of the entire role to cater to group A, group B is becoming increasingly unhappy.
> Group B takes to the forums to present criticism while group A is enjoying the role.

It's cyclical, you should know this.