#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[KisaiTenshi]

Ironically, Pokemon games have a hell of a lot more depth than this game does when you get into the competitive scene, it's one of the examples I'd happily give as "easy to learn, hard to master".

It's also something that has been "finished" just from people button mashing (See twitch plays pokemon), so it's really an example of something that merely "Finishing" it is not the goal. Finding all the Pokemon is the real goal, but that turns the game from a 20hr game to a 200hr game.

If it adheres to FF5s job system, can I put Black Magic on my White Mage? How about give my WHM a greatsword? This game does the opposite of FF5s job system in that it's very static, the job is the job and you don't have much say in how it develops, whereas 5 lets you experiment with different passives, bring in new spells/abilities from other jobs, etc.

You could originally. Because it was based on how it worked in Wizardry.

FF1 WHM still could wield hammers, making them good for picking off enemies early game, later it would get Dia for undead enemies and Holy for anything else. It was primarily a healer sure, but it still had offensive capabilities. FF3 gave them Aero and debuffs like Silence. Rosa could wield bows and Porom could Twincast with Palom. FF5 as mentioned earlier you could give them another jobs moveset. Garnet, Eiko, and Yuna were also Summoners. All WHM had some offensive capabilities, and the ones that don't had supporting systems to give them offensive capabilities anyway. The closest to "pure healer" you get is FF1.

All previous FF games also had a melee "ATTACK" action. In this game? Auto attack does less than nothing. Dia only worked on Undead. Only Holy worked on anything. Using Cure or Life on undead was the only way to instant kill undead monsters.

But you were never using the white mage to DPS, it was just a waste of a turn to do so.

SCH has been around since FF3, FF11 as well, and was known for being a user of both Black and White magic. The fact that a legacy job like SCH is now relegated to being a WHM clone (but with shields) already tells me Square doesn't care for tradition and is willing to sideline it for the excuse they call healer design in this game.

Scholar didn't exist in previous FF games, not the "Scholar" we have in this game. The FF3 Scholar literately had just "scan" and "peep". The 3D version gives it some red-mage levels of magic use, but it still was nothing like FF14. The White mage is a staple of FF. The scholar is not.

[TheDustyOne]

All previous FF games also had a melee "ATTACK" action. In this game? Auto attack does less than nothing. Dia only worked on Undead. Only Holy worked on anything. Using Cure or Life on undead was the only way to instant kill undead monsters.

But you were never using the white mage to DPS, it was just a waste of a turn to do so.

If my WHM had nothing to do that turn, then they attacked, wasting a turn would be casting a heal that wasn't needed.

Scholar didn't exist in previous FF games, not the "Scholar" we have in this game. The FF3 Scholar literately had just "scan" and "peep". The 3D version gives it some red-mage levels of magic use, but it still was nothing like FF14. The White mage is a staple of FF. The scholar is not.

That seems rather... a bad point if I'm being honest. Most of the jobs in this game deviate from their origins in some form or another; Warrior can only use Axes in this game while in all other FF games it could use a variety of weapons, is this Warrior not a real Warrior now? Should we rename it to Berserker because it has more in common with that job? DRG in XI had a pet dragon while all the offline ones didn't, was XI DRG not DRG in that game? How about SMN pre-EW? Was that not SMN because it had DoTs?

The jobs are allowed to deviate from the norm with their gameplay to an extent, as long as they still retain their identity, XIV SCH is meant to evoke III and XI SCH with its visual design and lore, XI and XIV both describe it as a tactician, and yet its gameplay has no resemblence to it outside a handful of spell names like Adloquium. Arguably, I'd say it fulfilled its mechanical identity requirement back in SB; multiple different DoTs for its "Black Magic" and of course the heals it has for "White Magic". Now it's so lop-sided that it's largely a WHM but with a different visual, it's lost its gameplay identity.

[Kohashi]

you could either fix this by giving healers tank like rotation so damage optimisation becomes an actual factor, you could cut oGCD healing so organisation of GCD healing becomes a factor, or up the damage so the same as option 2 is achieved

How would that even work? Tanks are specially designed to be able to hold aggro and soak incoming damage inately. Their tankiness comes primarily from the gear they have and their stats. Mitigation is done generally when a tank buster is incoming and those are spaced out and timed.

Also while adding a couple of buttons wouldn't hurt but, I don't want to have a DPS equivalent rotation, be responsible for everyone, and do mechanics. Healer is the most complex job already due to the multiple things that you need to juggle and keep track of. Also generally there are very few people who are consistent enough in a raid. The vast majority of groups make plenty of mistakes in execution which means as a healer you always have to re-adapt and re-consider what the next set of actions will be. Healing is very fluid. you never do or use the same spell every single time at the same point in time.

[KageTokage]

Healer is...not complex.

Once you memorize how much healing/mitigation is needed for a given mechanic you're just popping your non-offensive abilities on a strict timeline whenever you're not spamming 1.

In harder content people more often then not get one-shot or wipe the entire party if they make mistakes so the option to recover isn't even there to begin with.

The original post refers to itself as "a collective voice" for healer players.

But it isn't. There are those who only agree with some of the things listed, while others don't agree with any of them. Several players who do still enjoy healing in game keep being insulted and belittled as "not real healers" or "fake healer mains" by certain participants/strike supporters. You can't claim to be speaking for all healer players while being rude and condescending to a large number of them. A true collective voice would address their side of things and try to find compromise that everyone could enjoy.

And again, that manifesto being too vague doesn't help at all. It shouldn't be treating Dark Knights like they have the same self sustain as Warriors. It shouldn't be treating Second Wind's 120s cooldown like a genuine threat to a regular GCD heal. These conflations only comes off as a lack of understanding of various job kits outside of their main healers.

If your complaints fail to come off as well thought out and cohesive, everyone - including devs - are going to fail to understand them.

The "other side" speaking against the strike has been almost strictly insisting healers are fine as they are and that change only stands to potentially alienate less skilled players. There really isn't a concession to be made with them.

The bottom line is that people just want more to do as healers, whether it's pushing additional DPS buttons or hitting GCD heals more often. It's not a difficult point to make and the devs seem to be at least loosely aware of it given every healer got a new damaging ability in DT.

[TheDustyOne]

How would that even work? Tanks are specially designed to be able to hold aggro and soak incoming damage inately. Their tankiness comes primarily from the gear they have and their stats. Mitigation is done generally when a tank buster is incoming and those are spaced out and timed.

Also while adding a couple of buttons wouldn't hurt but, I don't want to have a DPS equivalent rotation, be responsible for everyone, and do mechanics. Healer is the most complex job already due to the multiple things that you need to juggle and keep track of. Also generally there are very few people who are consistent enough in a raid. The vast majority of groups make plenty of mistakes in execution which means as a healer you always have to re-adapt and re-consider what the next set of actions will be. Healing is very fluid. you never do or use the same spell every single time at the same point in time.

I think you may be misinterpreting what snow is saying? He's saying to give healers those "couple of buttons that wouldn't hurt" by effectively having a similar ratio that tanks have between damage and mitigation. Tanks also have a similar level of responsibility in content to healers in that if they screw up, the party wipes, but they get to have that responsibility alongside a simple rotation. Remember; the same damage that healers heal is the same damage that tanks mitigate, both are responsible for the parties survival.

Also healer is definitely not the most complex job, I'd sooner turn to a handful of DPS jobs long before I point to healers as complex. If you know to prioritize oGCD heals over GCD heals, you've already mastered 80% of the role.

[Kohashi]

I think you may be misinterpreting what snow is saying? He's saying to give healers those "couple of buttons that wouldn't hurt" by effectively having a similar ratio that tanks have between damage and mitigation. Tanks also have a similar level of responsibility in content to healers in that if they screw up, the party wipes, but they get to have that responsibility alongside a simple rotation. Remember; the same damage that healers heal is the same damage that tanks mitigate, both are responsible for the parties survival.

Also healer is definitely not the most complex job, I'd sooner turn to a handful of DPS jobs long before I point to healers as complex. If you know to prioritize oGCD heals over GCD heals, you've already mastered 80% of the role.

But that's exactly what makes no sense. How can you even do that as a healer to begin with? And tanks don't have a few buttons. They have completely fleshed out dps rotations.

As for tanks having a similar lvl of responsibility, it highly depends on the fight. If there is a body check and both tanks are dead yes, otherwise I don't agree. If both healers die and no dps can rez you have to reset(that is also very often true even in trash content). The incoming damage sustained by the entire party from upcoming mechanics will not be mitigated or survived for that long.

"Also healer is definitely not the most complex job, I'd sooner turn to a handful of DPS jobs long before I point to healers as complex. If you know to prioritize oGCD heals over GCD heals, you've already mastered 80% of the role."

That is grossly not true and only applicable to very few instances when everyone knows the fight extremely well and 0 mistakes are being made, otherwise no. You clearly have not played high end content if you think that's all it takes to be a healer..lol

[TheDustyOne]

But that's exactly what makes no sense. How can you even do that as a healer to begin with? And tanks don't have a few buttons. They have completely fleshed out dps rotations.

Heavensward and Stormblood.

As for tanks having a similar lvl of responsibility, it highly depends on the fight. If there is a body check and both tanks are dead yes, otherwise I don't agree. If both healers die and no dps can rez you have to reset(that is also very often true even in trash content). The incoming damage sustained by the entire party from upcoming mechanics will not be mitigated or survived for that long.

In Savage sure, but considering the amount of talk I hear about EW being largely body checks, doesn't that insinuate that tanks then have more responsibilities than healers? I admit to being very casual in content, last time I did savage was P1S, so someone else can speak for me there.

"Also healer is definitely not the most complex job, I'd sooner turn to a handful of DPS jobs long before I point to healers as complex. If you know to prioritize oGCD heals over GCD heals, you've already mastered 80% of the role."

That is grossly not true and only applicable to very few instances when everyone knows the fight extremely well and 0 mistakes are being made, otherwise no. You clearly have not played high end content if you think that's all it takes to be a healer..lol

Having played healer back in E5S and E6S, yes, that's all it took for me to play at a decent level with bad gear. I may be casual now, but I was a flex healer that normally tanks and got blue back then, that should tell you how simple it was.

How long have you been around if I may ask? You seem to think healers can't have anything complex DPS wise, but not only have previous expansions shown otherwise, the sheer amount of downtime and Glare spam that logs have shown tells me there's lots of space for a decently complex rotation.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I mean… even though people do be making random mistake, I think another part of that people tend to forget is the opportunity where those mistake could arise isn’t as random as people make out. Where else those excessive Essential Dignities, Solace, Fey Union, Druochole, etc are going to go when these happens & how often can these happens that are also not a body check?

Collectively, they pales in comparison to the amount of Glaroilficosis we can put out without neglecting our priorities.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

But that's exactly what makes no sense. How can you even do that as a healer to begin with? And tanks don't have a few buttons. They have completely fleshed out dps rotations.

Dots with differents durations (like we had in HW/SB), gcds with cooldown, procs etc... There are plenty of way of giving dps variation to healers without giving them hardcoded 123 rotations like tank (almost no one would like 123 rotation opn healers, that has been already said a lot of times btw).

And dpsing in casual content is optional so if there are too much dps button no one have to use them all in casual content, I mean those who already cast cure 1 only will continue to do so with 1 ou 5 dps buitton. That won't change.

Of course most of us would prefer to have more thing to heal so much more regular dmg in the content, but that would mean make it harder. So what is better ? Make the content harder or give somethin to keep healers busy when there's nothing to heal ?

If both healers die and no dps can rez you have to reset(that is also very often true even in trash content)

I've a lot more examples where when this happens the tank finishes the fight by himself or with a lone dps kept alive by the tank. It even more often in 8 ppl content where there are 2 tanks who could heal 2 dps.

Back in ShB, I can even easily find a e5n (eden ramuh normal), done 80% to 0% by only 2 GNB while the 6 others were dead.

That is grossly not true and only applicable to very few instances when everyone knows the fight extremely well and 0 mistakes are being made, otherwise no. You clearly have not played high end content if you think that's all it takes to be a healer..lol

I've done all ultimates in their expac beside TOP (week 5 TEA) and a lot of savages (some even weeks 2-3) since SB, are there high end content enough ? Or maybe you'll answer me that I can't understand casuals because of that.

Even there, the part that's make the fight difficult is not the healing as it is only planning your mitigation and ogcd heals on the fight timeline, it's the dancing part with the bloody body check at the end.

Also, runs without mistake done is a lot more common than you think. Especially now that, in high end content, any mistake would cause a wipe (Hi body check).

Recovering a run as a healer is almost only a myth now.

[Miyumi_Nara]

The issue with potencies like that, is that it becomes extremely punishing to do the 'wrong' rotation, and so SE would be deathly allergic to adding such a thing to the game. The idea that a WHM might cast Glare over and over, instead of using these new actions, which leads to enrage (due to the potency lost over the encounter) would come up in interviews. I think the way to go about it is, ironically, the very thing they just removed from the game since the media tour: Eukrasian Dyskrasia, when it stacked with Eukrasian Dosis and was a gain in SingleTarget, was a gain of only 40p over its entire 30s duration. If you lost one tick of it due to boss jumping away/early refresh, then it became completely equal to Dosis 3.

I'd put the potencies on new actions as no more than 50p of a gain over the spammable spell of the Job. That way, casual players (or players of any skill level who happen to misplay) are not excessively punished via Enrage, and yet optimization minded players will have something to optimize around, because it doesn't matter how little potency a gain something is, if something can be a gain, optimizers will optimize (just look at that stuff about locking your framerate on MNK).

As an example, on SGE I'd add two new actions, Neuralgia and Myasthenia, which would be 20p higher than Dosis, and get another 20 potency bonus if you alternate between the two. We have to remember that the skill floor of healers is not 'they spam the spammable' though, it's 'they keep the party alive'. So keeping 'spam the spammable' as being a high % of your output as compared to any 'optimal rotation' with new additions, I think is the best way for SE to implement this kind of stuff. That way, anyone who wants to have the healer gameplay of current day, still has the option to do so and clear stuff just as well as now



Quick and dirty 'solution' to that is to have more 'Barrier checks', like Photon in TEA/Vulcan Burst in UWU. Imagine a raidwide, that does 200 damage flat, and then 1 frame later, does the actual raidwide damage. If you don't block that first 200 with a barrier, then you get some nasty debuff, say a bleed (that is not affected by mitigations, so it's always spicy). The healer then has choice, either Barrier and block the damage (and therefore the debuff), ignore it, take the debuff and power through it, or potentially Esuna comes into play (eg if one healer has an AOE Esuna, maybe that's the 'better' option for them)

Esuna the last time I think it was needed in an actual raid I don't raid ultimate. Was e8s and removed the frozen status from your allies during a mechanic. But the only thing I see coming out of a healer strike is more bleeds like tier 2 of endwalker.