#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[itsnep]

Yes it should (except of course if the death of the healer happens when the ennemy is almost dead). That's why the healer is here in the first place. He/she is the lung of the team. He/she provides the vital oxygen.
However the other party members should be able to do more in order to prevent the healer from dying when he/she is in danger. The healer isn't supposed to bear the life of the team alone.
That's why "one-shot mecanics" are not really good in my opinion... It's too stressful for the healer, and by extend the whole team who has to pray for the healer to survive.

sure, if the boss is at full or even half health and the healer dies i don't expect the rest of the team to solo it, but as a tank i should be given enough sustain to be able to finish the fight after a certain threshold is met. dark knight gets virtually nothing but mitigation, and it even has less than other tanks. it's incredibly frustrating to get through a tough bout only for the healer to die close enough to the end but still a little too early to reliably finish off a boss, even more so if they can't get a grasp on the mechanics after dying to them multiple times. do you think if your white mage dies in a classic final fantasy title you shouldn't be able to beat the boss there either? to that extent phoenix downs should be usable in combat. genuinely has always frustrated me that they are in the game yet ridiculously limited despite being such an iconic part of the series.

[Grann-Goro]

sure, if the boss is at full or even half health and the healer dies i don't expect the rest of the team to solo it, but as a tank i should be given enough sustain to be able to finish the fight after a certain threshold is met. dark knight gets virtually nothing but mitigation, and it even has less than other tanks. it's incredibly frustrating to get through a tough bout only for the healer to die close enough to the end but still a little too early to reliably finish off a boss, even more so if they can't get a grasp on the mechanics after dying to them multiple times. do you think if your white mage dies in a classic final fantasy title you shouldn't be able to beat the boss there either? to that extent phoenix downs should be usable in combat. genuinely has always frustrated me that they are in the game yet ridiculously limited despite being such an iconic part of the series.

Yup, I agree with you about this ! ^_^
As long as each player is limited to one phoenix down in his bag and/or it has a cast time, I don't think it would be overpowered.

In my opinion, there is a quite big flaw in FFXIV boss-design from the very beginning : the fact that only healers can rez (almost) combined with one-shot mecanics everywhere.
Because of this, we can regularly see two opposite scenarios, but none of them is good :

Case number 1 : if the healer dies, the team dies.
Like I said before, this scenario is very frustrating for DPS and tanks if the healer dies on a one-shot mecanic, because they have to accept the fight must start over, even if they did nothing wrong. They just couldn't do anything to save their healer and they can't rez him/her either.

Case number 2 : the team can survive without the healer (that's what we see now when the tank is a paladin or a warrior).
This time, it's very frustrating for the healer, because he/she loses his/her role, and in addition to this he/she must accept to purely stop playing and miss the fight entirely if he/she ever dies. The team will just continue the fight whitout him/her (because they can !), plus they can't rez him/her.

[itsnep]

Yup, I agree with you about this ! ^_^
As long as each player is limited to one phoenix down in his bag and/or has a cast time, I don't think it would be overpowered.

In my opinion, there is a quite big flaw in FFXIV boss-design from the very beginning : the fact that only healers can rez (almost) combined with one-shot mecanics everywhere.
Because of this, we can regularly see two opposite scenarios, but none of them is good :

Case number 1 : if the healer dies, the team dies.
Like I said before, the scenario is very frustrating for DPS and tanks if the healer dies on a one-shot mecanic, because they have to accept the fight must start over, even if they did nothing wrong. They just couldn't do nothing to save their healer and they can't rez him/her either.

Case number 2 : the team can survive without the healer (that's what we see now when the tank is a paladin or a warrior).
This time, it's very frustrating for the healer, because he/she loses his/her role, and in addition to this he/she must accept to purely stop playing and miss the fight entirely if he/she ever dies on a one-shot mecanic. The team will just continue the fight whitout him/her (because they can !), plus they can't rez him/her.

that's entirely fair. maybe turn the down into a one-use key item per duty.

i definitely get the healer perspective, and i didn't realize it was as bad as it was until skimming through this thread. i've really only played the classes at lower levels (60 max). my experience as a tank is mostly as a dark knight so i am used to needing my support to be on top of things, and figured the only difference between jobs was that the healer had a slightly easier workload.

my fear now is that what little bit of regen i got this expac will be taken away lol.

[aiqa]

my fear now is that what little bit of regen i got this expac will be taken away lol.

I very much doubt a DRK is at risk of that.

The most egregious example of tank sustain is WAR. Just as a fun excersize lets see what it gets.

Bloodwhetting/Nascent Flash = 400 potency per target hit with a GCD attack for 8s, 20s cooldown
Equilibrium = ogcd 1200 potency heal + 200 potency 15s HoT, 60s cooldown
Shake It Off = ogcd AoE shield with the strength 15% of your max health + 300 potency heal + 100 potency 15s HoT, 90s cooldown
Damnation = 400! potency HoT for 15s, 120 cooldown

Optimally (assuming 8 targets, so not reaaaaally optimally) a WAR does selfhealing of (400*4*8)/20 + (1200+200*5)/60 + (300 + 100*5)/90 + (400*5)/120 = 702 ogcd healing potency per second.
Against 1 target that would be (400*4)/20 + (1200+200*5)/60 + (300 + 100*5)/90 + (400*5)/120 = 142 ogcd heal potency per second.
Against 1 target while also healing a team of 3 other players (400*4*2)/20 + (1200+200*5)/60 + ((300 + 100*5)*4)/90 + (400*5)/120 = 248 ogcd healing potency per second.

Then lets compare to WHM ogcd (including lilly heals) heals.

Single target
Afflatus Solace = 800 potency, 20s cooldown
Asylum = 100 potecy HoT for 24s, 90s cooldown
Assize = 400 potency, 40s cooldown
Tetragrammaton = 700 potency, 60s cooldown
Liturgy of the Bell = 400 potency, 5 stacks (at most), 180s cooldown
Divine Caress = 200 potency HoT for 15 seconds, 120s cooldown
Benedition = is difficult to express in potencies. Lets say... 2000? I think that is fair, 180s cooldown
800/20 + (100 * 8)/90 + 400/40 + 700/60 + (400*5)/180 + (200 * 5)/120 + 2000/180 = 101 ogcd healing potency per second. Healers get a 30% healing potency bonus, so that is 131.

For AoE healing Plenary Indulgence makes it all a bit tricky. Ideally AoE healing will be affected by Plenary Indulgence 3 times per minute, but that is very unlikely. So lets set that to 2 times, which is already generous.
And Afflatus Solace will be replaced by Afflatus Rapture
Afflatus Rapture = 400 potency, 20s cooldown
Plenary Indulgence = 200 potency bonus heal, per Afflatus Rapture, 60s cooldown
(400/20)*4 + ((100 * 8)/90)*4 + (400/40) *4 + 700/60 + ((400*5)/180) *4 + ((200 * 5)/120) *4 + 2000/180 + ((200*2)/60) *4 = 282 potency per second. Or 367 when including the healer bonus trait.

This is all very static. There is more to playing the jobs then just looking at potencies. And I ignored the shields that both WAR and WHM get. But it does clearly show that WAR ogcd heals are in the same ballpark as WHM single target ogcd heals. And far eclipse WHM ogcd heals when fighting groups of enemies. This is clearly a broken design. There is no way to balance this properly through content changes in casual content. In savage/ultimate you could get away with requiring AoE healing near the theoretical limits to still require healers.

[PercibelTheren]

my fear now is that what little bit of regen i got this expac will be taken away lol.

I doubt it. Also, the general agreement seems to be that DRK's sustain isn't a problem. A skilled DRK can mitigate a lot of damage, especially in decent gear, but won't be immortal and sure as hell won't keep the party alive as well as a dedicated healer can (WAR can do this in dungeons very easily). GNB, imo, is on the edge of still being somewhat acceptable. I understand the class fantasy of Paladin being the protector and support of the party. They may have overdone it a little bit, however. WAR is just insane. It's the best at everything tank and it's also stolen Paladin's party healer identity.