#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Aravell]

I think the WHM issue is exacerbated by how most of the community acts about healers.

If you're a new player and you're constantly told by most of the community stuff like "If you press Medica II/III, you're bad" or "If you need to press Cure III, you're playing wrong", then you'd very likely think that you don't need those GCD heals and you should never use them regardless of the situation. Some WHM players are smart about it and they use those heals as necessary, but they're rare because most pure healers who know how to think and plan are playing AST instead.

WHM design should be a lot better, but the way most of the community acts is largely to blame for how these WHMs play currently.

[Kohashi]

As the main SCH, for 5 years of playing Savages and Ultimates in statics and just PF. I can say that the most pleasant co-heal for me was Sage, the second AST and the last WHM. Because in most raids it is a check for mitigates, and not for pure healing.
With Sage, in most fights, the use of shields was reduced to a minimum, sometimes not used at all, so we get 2 times more mitigates and a large regeneration of pure heal covered all the meager incoming damage.
With Astrologer 50/50, the job itself is strong, which has enough mitigates. But the person playing for him must distribute his skills correctly. And then he reaches the level with Sage.
But as for WHM, in 95% of cases they do not know or do not remember or do not want to use Medica II or Cure III where it is really necessary. And also one Temperance is too little for a game where there is a constant mitigation check. It turns into 80% work for the shielder and 20% work for the WHM. Where in some 11 minutes of combat the shielder has 20-35 shields and the VHM has 0 Medica II and 0 Cure III. (I had a case yesterday in m7s where the WHM itself died, they find me under my Concitation and Sacred Soil with 50% HP, he ran out of Afflatus Rapture and decided not to heal at all.

Just because you've played with shitty WHMs doesn't equates with the class being bad. It only speaks of their personal mastery over the job and game, nothing else. You should know that much if you at least cleared Ultimates on your own and not with your PayPal.

Because again you haven’t actually replied to anything

I’m arguing WHM is underpowered. You seem to be thinking I’m saying pure healers are useless. Pure healers strengths are not properly capitalised on but AST isn’t weak; WHM is. So how bad PF is or isn’t is only relevant in terms of a situation where ONLY WHM can avoid a wipe the others couldn’t, not how rigid healing plans are for double shields (which the only reason double shields are even in the conversation is because whether you condition their planning harder or not they arent a meme comp like double regen)

The chance of WHM being the only healer that can resolve a near wipe that every other healer would fail are very few and very far between. If you want to argue I’m implying regen healers are totally useless I’ll argue that point with you but that’s not the point I’m making, you just seem to bounce between both points and call me stupid whenever you randomly decide to change which one of the two points you are arguing about

Underpowered in what sense? They can get the team from 10% to 100% in 2 spells. AST is great, but unless they have Macro, they cannot do that.
I lost count of how many times I carried on WHM and how many wipes were prevented just because of the raw healing power the WHM has.

[Supersnow845]

Basically it’s the same problem as calculating the effective utility of expedient. It’s not whether you saved the run on WHM it’s whether you saved the run on WHM and if you were on any other class at that time you wouldn’t have saved the run. That’s a hard thing to calculate and is a very narrow niche for being WHM’s only functional niche. Like if you saved the party by dumping healing out on WHM could you guarantee that you couldn’t do that on a SCH using seraphism to spam accession or an AST spamming neutral sect plus whatever other actions they have?

Because right now that’s WHM’s only niche, is theoretical recovery beyond what the other healers could handle, just “recovery” isn’t a niche of WHM. In every other field WHM is weaker than the other healers and those are quantifiable and useful fields because (especially) more mitigation is never useless, potential recovery potential often is

[Kohashi]

Basically it’s the same problem as calculating the effective utility of expedient. It’s not whether you saved the run on WHM it’s whether you saved the run on WHM and if you were on any other class at that time you wouldn’t have saved the run. That’s a hard thing to calculate and is a very narrow niche for being WHM’s only functional niche. Like if you saved the party by dumping healing out on WHM could you guarantee that you couldn’t do that on a SCH using seraphism to spam accession or an AST spamming neutral sect plus whatever other actions they have?

Because right now that’s WHM’s only niche, is theoretical recovery beyond what the other healers could handle, just “recovery” isn’t a niche of WHM. In every other field WHM is weaker than the other healers and those are quantifiable and useful fields because (especially) more mitigation is never useless, potential recovery potential often is

Sure, you can go from 100 to 0 mana while spamming seraphism, but you have to keep in mind it's on a 3-minute cooldown. If you used sera on a previous mechanic and shit hit the fan, you have no way to answer that. Maybe... you might be lucky and have recitation + indo... maybe. The same can be said about the Neutral sect. AST is great, but it requires planning your spells. If you can predict fuck ups you can essentially mitigate that but now, let's be real..

WHM is far from niche, but its weaknesses are as apparent as its strengths.

[Supersnow845]

That’s what I’m saying, WHM is only stronger at recovery than the other healers in the specific set of circumstances where

1) an unpredicted mistake is made
2) the other healers “now I become HPS god” CD’s are on CD
3) WHM has enough mana to spam cure 3 and everyone is grouped up enough for it to matter or otherwise WHM’s other HPS CD’s like Lily’s and plenary are for some reason not on CD while everyone else’s skills are

Compare that to AST who’s advantage is “I give you more mitigation” and you can see why WHM’s “niche” just isn’t worth it and it excels at almost nothing else

[Saraide]

WHM's strengths not only do not get designed around but often actively designed against with stuff like damage downs and one shots. The three mitigation healers all have content designed for their strengths because mitigation is king. (the so called regen/pure healer split is outdated, the proper categories now are Mitigation Healers and White mage).

WHM/AST is a really bad combo and the numbers show it. When my giga casual static cleared some of the fights there were single digit amount of logs for that healer combo.

[Oizen]

Health Regeneration is also significantly shittier than Shields or Damage Reduction.

[Aravell]

WHM/AST is a really bad combo and the numbers show it. When my giga casual static cleared some of the fights there were single digit amount of logs for that healer combo.

The reason WHM/AST has really low numbers early on is not only because it's a meme comp, but it also requires the whole party to have gear, because it externalises a lot of the mitigation required, the tanks and DPS have to pick up the slack and the rest has to be covered by pure defensive value from better gear.

[Maltothoris]

When it comes to astro/whm clears, we only have one and that woild be on m6s. With sch/sge combos, we have 248 clears across all fights.

Edit: When it comes fru, we have 33 clears with sge/sch and none with ast/whm. Of course all of this is according to the forbidden site and only the uploads. For all we know there could be more that were not uploaded.

[ForsakenRoe]

The amount of coordination for a SCH/SGE comp is a bit overblown IMO, as the only two things that conflict are Adlo/Succor, and E.Diagnosis/Prognosis. Everything else stacks fine.

You can have Holosakos, Panhaima, Haima, Kerachole, Sacred Soil, Expedient, Fey Illumination, Consolation, and a Recitation-Deploy-Adlo, all on at the same time.
But Twelve forbid you add E.Prognosis, that'd be TOO much mitigation!