#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[AmiableApkallu]

At least it would be something....Because, as it stand, what the WHM do, all the other healer job can do it better (except for some very niche things)

I feel like this is one of those instances where I need to highlight my previous thoughts [1, 2]:

There are times when I feel like SGE is what you get when what you wanted is a WHM that hasn't been constrained by being the purest of "pure" healers, but instead you need to shoehorn the job into being a "barrier" healer.

EDIT: In terms of gameplay, I mean. The aesthetics are obviously worlds apart.

Let me elaborate: In the context of FFXIV's current encounter design...

No one has ever accused WHM of being the bestest of "pure" healers, nor has anyone accused of SGE of being the bestest "barrier" healer. On the other hand, people have accused WHM of lacking in barriers, and SGE of putting out too much regens/HP.

Take SGE, delete Kardia, rename (Pan)Haima as Regenerative Stoneskin/Protect (or whatever, I'm bad at names), smoosh what's left into current WHM, and... I think that might make for a reasonable jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none healer.

And that, I think, is perfectly fitting for a healer that you can pick up at Lv.1 and take through the MSQ and Be Viable in Content(tm), while being in keeping with previous Final Fantasy games where the only healer was... a white mage (or close derivative).

Like, WHM doesn't need to be Meta(tm) or The Best(tm). It just needs something more to its healing kit other than, "lol, I'll fix HP bars... assuming we're not all dead when {the mechanic} resolves."

[BigCheez]

At least it would be something....Because, as it stand, what the WHM do, all the other healer job can do it better (except for some very niche things)

It would be something but it wouldn't be something good. They need to go back to drawing board and figure out what each job should excel at because having them all do the same thing makes for an incredibly shallow and boring game.

[Lorika]

Like, WHM doesn't need to be Meta(tm) or The Best(tm). It just needs something more to its healing kit other than, "lol, I'll fix HP bars... assuming we're not all dead when {the mechanic} resolves."

It's not what i mean (being the best or meta).
It's just that WHM have no place at all right now, except for being the training wheels before switching to one of the others healer.

[Supersnow845]

I have to say, the amount of stupid shit that you are saying it's between funny and right down bafling. It just shows how little understanding you have of what is currently happening and how systems work.

Yes, it is relevant because while there are many talented and skilled individuals, the average PF and people raiding overall do a LOT of mistakes. That's why even in statics, it is hard to have a completely rigid healing rotation. Stuff happens, people stand in bad, such is life. Nobody is perfect, mistakes can happen, and having a pure + a shield is always better to mitigate such occurrences.


Also, probably the reason why double shield is not meta is because it requires extra planning and synergy/ communication between the healers since a lot of the stuff overlaps and cancels each other. It can absolutely be done, but why even add a layer of complexity when the easiest way would be to have one of each?

The damage is not frequent and/or hits hard enough to force this particular set of gameplay.

Because again you haven’t actually replied to anything

I’m arguing WHM is underpowered. You seem to be thinking I’m saying pure healers are useless. Pure healers strengths are not properly capitalised on but AST isn’t weak; WHM is. So how bad PF is or isn’t is only relevant in terms of a situation where ONLY WHM can avoid a wipe the others couldn’t, not how rigid healing plans are for double shields (which the only reason double shields are even in the conversation is because whether you condition their planning harder or not they arent a meme comp like double regen)

The chance of WHM being the only healer that can resolve a near wipe that every other healer would fail are very few and very far between. If you want to argue I’m implying regen healers are totally useless I’ll argue that point with you but that’s not the point I’m making, you just seem to bounce between both points and call me stupid whenever you randomly decide to change which one of the two points you are arguing about

[Innio]

As the main SCH, for 5 years of playing Savages and Ultimates in statics and just PF. I can say that the most pleasant co-heal for me was Sage, the second AST and the last WHM. Because in most raids it is a check for mitigates, and not for pure healing.
With Sage, in most fights, the use of shields was reduced to a minimum, sometimes not used at all, so we get 2 times more mitigates and a large regeneration of pure heal covered all the meager incoming damage.
With Astrologer 50/50, the job itself is strong, which has enough mitigates. But the person playing for him must distribute his skills correctly. And then he reaches the level with Sage.
But as for WHM, in 95% of cases they do not know or do not remember or do not want to use Medica II or Cure III where it is really necessary. And also one Temperance is too little for a game where there is a constant mitigation check. It turns into 80% work for the shielder and 20% work for the WHM. Where in some 11 minutes of combat the shielder has 20-35 shields and the WHM has 0 Medica II and 0 Cure III. (I had a case yesterday in m7s where the WHM itself died, they find me under my Concitation and Sacred Soil with 50% HP, he ran out of Afflatus Rapture and decided not to heal at all.

[Aravell]

I think the WHM issue is exacerbated by how most of the community acts about healers.

If you're a new player and you're constantly told by most of the community stuff like "If you press Medica II/III, you're bad" or "If you need to press Cure III, you're playing wrong", then you'd very likely think that you don't need those GCD heals and you should never use them regardless of the situation. Some WHM players are smart about it and they use those heals as necessary, but they're rare because most pure healers who know how to think and plan are playing AST instead.

WHM design should be a lot better, but the way most of the community acts is largely to blame for how these WHMs play currently.

[Kohashi]

As the main SCH, for 5 years of playing Savages and Ultimates in statics and just PF. I can say that the most pleasant co-heal for me was Sage, the second AST and the last WHM. Because in most raids it is a check for mitigates, and not for pure healing.
With Sage, in most fights, the use of shields was reduced to a minimum, sometimes not used at all, so we get 2 times more mitigates and a large regeneration of pure heal covered all the meager incoming damage.
With Astrologer 50/50, the job itself is strong, which has enough mitigates. But the person playing for him must distribute his skills correctly. And then he reaches the level with Sage.
But as for WHM, in 95% of cases they do not know or do not remember or do not want to use Medica II or Cure III where it is really necessary. And also one Temperance is too little for a game where there is a constant mitigation check. It turns into 80% work for the shielder and 20% work for the WHM. Where in some 11 minutes of combat the shielder has 20-35 shields and the VHM has 0 Medica II and 0 Cure III. (I had a case yesterday in m7s where the WHM itself died, they find me under my Concitation and Sacred Soil with 50% HP, he ran out of Afflatus Rapture and decided not to heal at all.

Just because you've played with shitty WHMs doesn't equates with the class being bad. It only speaks of their personal mastery over the job and game, nothing else. You should know that much if you at least cleared Ultimates on your own and not with your PayPal.

Because again you haven’t actually replied to anything

I’m arguing WHM is underpowered. You seem to be thinking I’m saying pure healers are useless. Pure healers strengths are not properly capitalised on but AST isn’t weak; WHM is. So how bad PF is or isn’t is only relevant in terms of a situation where ONLY WHM can avoid a wipe the others couldn’t, not how rigid healing plans are for double shields (which the only reason double shields are even in the conversation is because whether you condition their planning harder or not they arent a meme comp like double regen)

The chance of WHM being the only healer that can resolve a near wipe that every other healer would fail are very few and very far between. If you want to argue I’m implying regen healers are totally useless I’ll argue that point with you but that’s not the point I’m making, you just seem to bounce between both points and call me stupid whenever you randomly decide to change which one of the two points you are arguing about

Underpowered in what sense? They can get the team from 10% to 100% in 2 spells. AST is great, but unless they have Macro, they cannot do that.
I lost count of how many times I carried on WHM and how many wipes were prevented just because of the raw healing power the WHM has.

[Supersnow845]

Basically it’s the same problem as calculating the effective utility of expedient. It’s not whether you saved the run on WHM it’s whether you saved the run on WHM and if you were on any other class at that time you wouldn’t have saved the run. That’s a hard thing to calculate and is a very narrow niche for being WHM’s only functional niche. Like if you saved the party by dumping healing out on WHM could you guarantee that you couldn’t do that on a SCH using seraphism to spam accession or an AST spamming neutral sect plus whatever other actions they have?

Because right now that’s WHM’s only niche, is theoretical recovery beyond what the other healers could handle, just “recovery” isn’t a niche of WHM. In every other field WHM is weaker than the other healers and those are quantifiable and useful fields because (especially) more mitigation is never useless, potential recovery potential often is

[Kohashi]

Basically it’s the same problem as calculating the effective utility of expedient. It’s not whether you saved the run on WHM it’s whether you saved the run on WHM and if you were on any other class at that time you wouldn’t have saved the run. That’s a hard thing to calculate and is a very narrow niche for being WHM’s only functional niche. Like if you saved the party by dumping healing out on WHM could you guarantee that you couldn’t do that on a SCH using seraphism to spam accession or an AST spamming neutral sect plus whatever other actions they have?

Because right now that’s WHM’s only niche, is theoretical recovery beyond what the other healers could handle, just “recovery” isn’t a niche of WHM. In every other field WHM is weaker than the other healers and those are quantifiable and useful fields because (especially) more mitigation is never useless, potential recovery potential often is

Sure, you can go from 100 to 0 mana while spamming seraphism, but you have to keep in mind it's on a 3-minute cooldown. If you used sera on a previous mechanic and shit hit the fan, you have no way to answer that. Maybe... you might be lucky and have recitation + indo... maybe. The same can be said about the Neutral sect. AST is great, but it requires planning your spells. If you can predict fuck ups you can essentially mitigate that but now, let's be real..

WHM is far from niche, but its weaknesses are as apparent as its strengths.

[Supersnow845]

That’s what I’m saying, WHM is only stronger at recovery than the other healers in the specific set of circumstances where

1) an unpredicted mistake is made
2) the other healers “now I become HPS god” CD’s are on CD
3) WHM has enough mana to spam cure 3 and everyone is grouped up enough for it to matter or otherwise WHM’s other HPS CD’s like Lily’s and plenary are for some reason not on CD while everyone else’s skills are

Compare that to AST who’s advantage is “I give you more mitigation” and you can see why WHM’s “niche” just isn’t worth it and it excels at almost nothing else