#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kira619]

I've said this a lot before - trying to masquerade opinions as if they're facts is what destroys credibility. Add in the last sentence for the classic "let me just be condescending and insult anyone who disagrees with me," and this could be the poster child for why "feedback" from those pushing the strike is ultimately discounted.

Pretty Much, and to be honest this is partially why I believe this strike isn't going to help at all.

1 - It's clearly obvious the devs wants to section out a particular part of the game for it's high level of difficulty. While having the game at it's core accessible for as many people as possible. That's clearly a mission statement and would not change any more than WoW diverging from it's core dynamics.

2 - This toxic behavior is constantly seen from the "get gud" who demands higher levels of difficulty for their enjoyment while demeaning those who enjoy a more casual experience.

3 - The changes reflected here would apply to all 3 categories (European, American, and Japanese.) Unless this feedback was given from the three different locations, there's no way they're going to adjust the content to fit a small vocal minority in one demographic location.

4 - Forums in general are mostly a place where people go to criticize content. If the feedback was as massive as some give credence too, we would be seeing these changes with dawntrails. Instead, we see the opposite with even more damage migitation given to tanks. This clearly gives the impression that there is more feedback being given that tanks are too squishy and need more self protection.

[Wildheaven182]

Pretty Much, and to be honest this is partially why I believe this strike isn't going to help at all.

1 - It's clearly obvious the devs wants to section out a particular part of the game for it's high level of difficulty. While having the game at it's core accessible for as many people as possible. That's clearly a mission statement and would not change any more than WoW diverging from it's core dynamics.

Yes, we are also complaining about how they have diverged from their original mission statement after the 1.0 nuke where they said things like realizing they need to prioritize hearing player feedback and that fun is the objective. So enjoy either cutscene simulator or studying for savage raids. I'll play something else.

2 - This toxic behavior is constantly seen from the "get gud" who demands higher levels of difficulty for their enjoyment while demeaning those who enjoy a more casual experience.

I enjoy a more casual experience. I am a filthy casual scrub who plays roulettes. I don't want high difficulty, I want *any* difficulty at all. Some amount of skill has to be expected at lvl 50, 70, 90 and so on.

3 - The changes reflected here would apply to all 3 categories (European, American, and Japanese.) Unless this feedback was given from the three different locations, there's no way they're going to adjust the content to fit a small vocal minority in one demographic location.

No, only unless feedback is given from the Japanese demographic will any feedback be considered. In fact, if all three voiced the same concerns, it would take away and reduce the credibility of the Japanese opinion to the devs.

4 - Forums in general are mostly a place where people go to criticize content. If the feedback was as massive as some give credence too, we would be seeing these changes with dawntrails. Instead, we see the opposite with even more damage migitation given to tanks. This clearly gives the impression that there is more feedback being given that tanks are too squishy and need more self protection.

Also no. In 1.0 squex actually disabled and hid the forums due to the massive negative feedback instead of addressing it or considering it. It was a year or so later when any plans for changes were announced.
The idea that "everything is the way most people want it" is very... first order thinking, to be polite.

[Kira619]

Also no. In 1.0 squex actually disabled and hid the forums due to the massive negative feedback instead of addressing it or considering it. It was a year or so later when any plans for changes were announced.
The idea that "everything is the way most people want it" is very... first order thinking, to be polite.

And has Squex disabled the forums now? No. Is this conversation being seen in the japanese or french thread, No. After the 100's of pages seen here, has Square went the exact opposite direction in Dawn Trail, yes. Also, I have never said that everything is the way most people want it. You're attempting to put words into a statement instead of acknowledging what's actually being said.

[Wildheaven182]

And has Squex disabled the forums now? No. Is this conversation being seen in the japanese or french thread, No. After the 100's of pages seen here, has Square went the exact opposite direction in Dawn Trail, yes. Also, I have never said that everything is the way most people want it. You're attempting to put words into a statement instead of acknowledging what's actually being said.

Alright so first: "Instead, we see the opposite with even more damage migitation given to tanks. This clearly gives the impression that there is more feedback being given that tanks are too squishy and need more self protection."
And then: "Also, I have never said that everything is the way most people want it."

First you say there must be more feedback that supports Dawntrail changes than opposes it. This implies the status quo is more popular and therefore is the way the game is.
Then you say the opposite when I give an example of the popular opinion being ignored in the past.

Alright yes, you did not say explicitly, but it is what is clearly implied by what you said. Apologies.

"And has Squex disabled the forums now? No. Is this conversation being seen in the japanese or french thread, No."
I suppose you have a point. They should wait until this conversation is also in other languages and gets so bad that they have to shut down the forums to prevent people from criticizing their perfect game. That worked great last time they ignored feedback under any other circumstance than the actual shut down of the game.

[Kira619]

Alright so first: "Instead, we see the opposite with even more damage migitation given to tanks. This clearly gives the impression that there is more feedback being given that tanks are too squishy and need more self protection."
And then: "Also, I have never said that everything is the way most people want it."

First you say there must be more feedback that supports Dawntrail changes than opposes it. This implies the status quo is more popular and therefore is the way the game is.
Then you say the opposite when I give an example of the popular opinion being ignored in the past.

Alright yes, you did not say explicitly, but it is what is clearly implied by what you said. Apologies.

No it's not what's clearly applied, that is what you're projecting because you disagree with my statements. If I believe everything is the way most people want it, I would say it. But I didn't, because I surely don't believe nor do I know that "everything" is the way most people want it.
The key term, is everything. Hence why I said, stick to what's actually be said, aka the specifics. So sticking to the specifics, do I believe that more people view that tanks are more squishy, hence the addition to tank migration in comparison to the opposite viewpoint here? Yes, that is what I do believe.

"And has Squex disabled the forums now? No. Is this conversation being seen in the japanese or french thread, No."
I suppose you have a point. They should wait until this conversation is also in other languages and gets so bad that they have to shut down the forums to prevent people from criticizing their perfect game. That worked great last time they ignored feedback under any other circumstance than the actual shut down of the game.

Oh yes, Square should certainly focus on this subset group of forum posters in one particular demographic over the majority of players from multiple different regions. That would go across fantastic...

I work in IT. The fact that they shutdown the forums indicates that all the regions were providing massive amount of negative feedback. Not just English speakers, and not just a couple of threads. The fact that they haven't even shut down the english section (which they could if it was a massive as some people say), let alone the forums as a whole, says something.

[Wildheaven182]

No it's not what's clearly applied, that is what you're projecting because you disagree with my statements. If I believe everything is the way most people want it, I would say it. But I didn't, because I surely don't believe nor do I know that "everything" is the way most people want it.
The key term, is everything. Hence why I said, stick to what's actually be said, aka the specifics. So sticking to the specifics, do I believe that more people view that tanks are more squishy, hence the addition to tank migration in comparison to the opposite viewpoint here? Yes, that is what I do believe.



Oh yes, Square should certainly focus on this subset group of forum posters in one particular demographic over the majority of players from multiple different regions. That would go across fantastic...

I work in IT. The fact that they shutdown the forums indicates that all the regions were providing massive amount of negative feedback. Not just English speakers, and not just a couple of threads. The fact that they haven't even shut down the english section (which they could if it was a massive as some people say), let alone the forums as a whole, says something.

Alright then, how many threads and forums are there in each region about people complaining that tanks are too squishy? Healers have been complaining for 3 expansions and this protest thread is over 500 pages in two weeks.
We can also say forums only reflect the vocal minority and not necessarily popular opinion. That is true, but that doesn't mean those who are vocal never reflect popular opinion.
Alright then, when healers complain for over 6 years, culminating in a protest thread over 500 pages long in two weeks gaining attention from content creators, influencers and gaming news outlets, it doesn't reflect a popular opinion.
But I suppose when there are no comparable complaints about tanks on any platform, tanks being too squishy is the popular opinion based on... I suppose the holy decree of square enix, or assumption based on nothing. You tell me.
I'll apply this reasoning and say that many in other regions feel the same but just aren't vocal about it.

[Kira619]

Alright then, how many threads and forums are there in each region about people complaining that tanks are too squishy? Healers have been complaining for 3 expansions and this protest thread is over 500 pages in two weeks.
We can also say forums only reflect the vocal minority and not necessarily popular opinion. That is true, but that doesn't mean those who are vocal never reflect popular opinion.
Alright then, when healers complain for over 6 years, culminating in a protest thread over 500 pages long in two weeks gaining attention from content creators, influencers and gaming news outlets, it doesn't reflect a popular opinion.
But I suppose when there are no comparable complaints about tanks on any platform, tanks being too squishy is the popular opinion based on... I suppose the holy decree of square enix, or assumption based on nothing. You tell me.
I'll apply this reasoning and say that many in other regions feel the same but just aren't vocal about it.

And you know that there have been no threads anywhere providing feedback about tanks being squishy how? Or that's right, you somehow came across every single final fantasy forum, gaming news outlet, in every single language across the planet. But surely other regions are feeling the same thing because they HAVE to align with your mindset. How dare other regions possibly have a different viewpoint then your own.

[Flay_wind]

The key term, is everything. Hence why I said, stick to what's actually be said, aka the specifics. So sticking to the specifics, do I believe that more people view that tanks are more squishy, hence the addition to tank migration in comparison to the opposite viewpoint here? Yes, that is what I do believe.

Are we playing the same game? In what way tanks are too squishy?

Also if you want an example of a truly squishy tank, try BLU Tank, base caster HP, while also at the same time missing the whole weapon worth of VIT. And while they do have 20% max HP upkeep buff, it's still calculated from that same caster HP minus weapon worth of VIT.

[Somnolence]

Are we playing the same game? In what way tanks are too squishy?

Meanwhile,

Tenacity's effect on damage dealt, damage received, and HP restored has been increased.

[Kira619]

Are we playing the same game? In what way tanks are too squishy?

Also if you want an example of a truly squishy tank, try BLU Tank, base caster HP, while also at the same time missing the whole weapon worth of VIT. And while they do have 20% max HP upkeep buff, it's still calculated from that same caster HP minus weapon worth of VIT.

You're misunderstanding the statement made. Nowhere did I say "I believe that Tanks are too Squishy." I said "I believe more people view that tanks are too squishy." Hence Square listening to that feedback and beefing up Tanks Damage Migitation, which is the exact opposite of what was asked in this thread. The purpose of the statement wasn't to point to my personal belief on particular matter on Tanks damage migitation, but my belief on why Square went the direction that they did in Dawntrail.