#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Revash]

if we disliked the game, then that would be the logical option.

however, many do not hate the game or SE, we just want to get feedback out there that healer is in a serious way and they have been killing it for a while. quitting means we cannot post feedback... so, you telling us to quit to silence the feedback?

What I am saying is. You can discuss ideas, post feedback and so forth as much as you like(and like you need mine, some rando internet guy's permission anyway ) but I am very skeptical that this strike will achieve anything. SE like any profit based company, base their decisions on profit, market analysis and so forth and not on "emotional forum tantrums". No offense meant. If they see a potential profit gain, they will act and their PR guys will present it as "we listened to feedback and we are the good guys!" but if there is no profit to be gained or they at least see it like that..then....

Edit: While I barely if ever use the FFXIV and if its indeed true that some healers have been posting the same feedback for 6 years without any response from SE. "An absence of an answer is still an answer". And I doubt they are refusing to budge only because they are stubborn oxes.

[Dogempire]

What I am saying is. You can discuss ideas, post feedback and so forth as much as you like(and like you need mine, some rando internet guy's permission anyway ) but I am very skeptical that this strike will achieve anything. SE like any profit based company, base their decisions on profit, market analysis and so forth and not on "emotional forum tantrums". No offense meant. If they see a potential profit gain, they will act and their PR guys will present it as "we listened to feedback and we are the good guys!" but if there is no profit to be gained or they at least see it like that..then....

I mean, I support the strike but I'm still skeptical it'll do anything. Why? Because I've been around long enough to know that SE cares more about supporting the braindead players who will whine about the hard jobs being too complex and how it's unfair they have difficulty leveling the job and want it lobotomized.

SE doesn't care about the dedicated mains to a certain job, all they care about is making every single job accessible to the mediocre masses instead of... I don't know, keeping certain jobs beginner friendly while leaving harder jobs untouched to provide other players some challenge.

Hell, I'd say that SE won the war against healer mains because while yes, they pushed out almost all of the veteran healer mains, they managed to find some Medica/Cure spamming lobotomites to take their place who don't mind the mediocrity that is the healer role.

Hell, by this point healers may as well have a spell that displays subway surfer gameplay on a small screen in the corner because that's the level of player the healing role is attracting nowadays

[Revash]

I mean, I support the strike but I'm still skeptical it'll do anything. Why? Because I've been around long enough to know that SE cares more about supporting the braindead players who will whine about the hard jobs being too complex and how it's unfair they have difficulty leveling the job and want it lobotomized.

SE doesn't care about the dedicated mains to a certain job, all they care about is making every single job accessible to the mediocre masses instead of... I don't know, keeping certain jobs beginner friendly while leaving harder jobs untouched to provide other players some challenge.

Hell, I'd say that SE won the war against healer mains because while yes, they pushed out almost all of the veteran healer mains, they managed to find some Medica/Cure spamming lobotomites to take their place who don't mind the mediocrity that is the healer role.

Hell, by this point healers may as well have a spell that displays subway surfer gameplay on a small screen in the corner because that's the level of player the healing role is attracting nowadays

Well. I agree and thats the thing. SE analysts don't differentiate between "good players or bad". We are just numbers for them. If they see that they lost 1 veteran player but gained 5 super casual slobs(like me. I play FFXIV purely on a casual pleb level :rofl:, had enough of sweatlording in WoW, FFXIV is my vacation) then 5-1=+4, its a "win" in their eyes.

[aiqa]

What I am saying is. You can discuss ideas, post feedback and so forth as much as you like(and like you need mine, some rando internet guy's permission anyway ) but I am very skeptical that this strike will achieve anything. SE like any profit based company, base their decisions on profit, market analysis and so forth and not on "emotional forum tantrums". No offense meant. If they see a potential profit gain, they will act and their PR guys will present it as "we listened to feedback and we are the good guys!" but if there is no profit to be gained or they at least see it like that..then....

Edit: While I barely if ever use the FFXIV and if its indeed true that some healers have been posting the same feedback for 6 years without any response from SE. "An absence of an answer is still an answer". And I doubt they are refusing to budge only because they are stubborn oxes.

I would appreciate it if you were a bit more explicit with your intentions. You imply a "you guys should stop providing feedback on the forums, because stuff on the forums will not be listened to anyway" without actually saying the words.

And if that is indeed you mean. Why are you trying to convince other people of that, people that have clearly decided it is worth another try, and have an actual goal (improving the healer role situation in FF). You could have applied that same believe to your own posts, which would be a lot more reasonable since it's your own believes. And after 600 pages it should be obvious that people who support the strike will not listen to someone trying to convince them it's all pointless, so following the logic that it's pointless to post about stuff that wont change...... And contrary to people supporting the healer strike, you don't even seem to have a worthwhile goal.

ps. I didn't mean this in hostile way. THe post might come accros a bit hostile. But it was already tricky enough to try get accros what I mean without making it sounds nice.

[Revash]

I would appreciate it if you were a bit more explicit with your intentions. You imply a "you guys should stop providing feedback on the forums, because stuff on the forums will not be listened to anyway" without actually saying the words.

And if that is indeed you mean. Why are you trying to convince other people of that, people that have clearly decided it is worth another try, and have an actual goal (improving the healer role situation in FF). You could have applied that same believe to your own posts, which would be a lot more reasonable since it's your own believes. And after 600 pages it should be obvious that people who support the strike will not listen to someone trying to convince them it's all pointless, so following the logic that it's pointless to post about stuff that wont change...... And contrary to people supporting the healer strike, you don't even seem to have a worthwhile goal.

ps. I didn't mean this in hostile way. THe post might come accros a bit hostile. But it was already tricky enough to try get accros what I mean without making it sounds nice.

Like I said before. I am a random internet Joe. Nobody will quit anything because I said so. I know that. But a lot of posters are being very emotional and want to spite SE for their perceived neglect. I am only pointing out that if somebody really wants to spite SE then voting with your wallet is the only way. A company sees you as $ and nothing more. As long as they get your $, then dont care if you actually play the game or write complaint posts on the forums 24/7.

[Kes13a]

What I am saying is. You can discuss ideas, post feedback and so forth as much as you like(and like you need mine, some rando internet guy's permission anyway ) but I am very skeptical that this strike will achieve anything. SE like any profit based company, base their decisions on profit, market analysis and so forth and not on "emotional forum tantrums". No offense meant. If they see a potential profit gain, they will act and their PR guys will present it as "we listened to feedback and we are the good guys!" but if there is no profit to be gained or they at least see it like that..then....

Edit: While I barely if ever use the FFXIV and if its indeed true that some healers have been posting the same feedback for 6 years without any response from SE. "An absence of an answer is still an answer". And I doubt they are refusing to budge only because they are stubborn oxes.

I am not sure that it will change anything either to be honest. Yoshi has said that essentially, they went to far in simplifying the game.. oops! this "strike" for better or worse has made it outside the SE bubble of the forums, so now it also becomes a PR thing. what happens is anyone's guess and I am not going to speculate. but if their profits tank because they are abandonned by people who might want to use their brains occasionally when playing jobs... they cannot say they did not see it coming.

as in all things, time will tell. all I know is at this point, I need to see something actually change for the better before I spend money on 8.0. vague promises of a change have carried me this far, but the tank is dry.

[aiqa]

Just to play the Devil's advocate.
Feedback is not a legal court order. They can act upon it, they can take partial parts from it, they can discard it completely. I used to "scream alot" back in WoW..but eventually I understood that. I can go to their HQ and stomp my feet all I want and they still can do what they want with their product and nobody can "force" them do it otherwise.
Can only affect them "indirectly" with wallets if their financial analysts start yelling that they are going in the red and etc.

I can't fault you for not reading 600 pages, but this was already discussed ad nauseam. This is a copy/paste of my response to people who have seriously and continiously tried to get people supporting the strike to unsubscribe. And since I don't have anything else to add it works well enough again.

- The intent of the strike, or the people supporting the strike, is not to unsubscribe.
- Unsubscribing from FF brings into question the feedback itself, it's quite likely devs are less eager to listen to feedback from unsubscribed players.
- There isn't a way to let the devs know why a specific account unsubscribed, that could be for any number of reasons and will likely get drowned out by the huge changes in subscriber numbers that come with any new expansion.
- Your attempts at convincing people to unsubscribe are unwanted, and it's frankly non of your business what services other people subscribe to.
- Continued attempt to convince people to unsubscribe cross the line from unwanted to creepy.
- It's a disingenuous advice. The unsubscribe argument is a transparent attempt to dismiss the complaints, by claiming they aren't serious since healers are unwilling to unsubscribe. That has never been a valid argument to counter any form of player feedback.

[gllt]

I still believe it's less catering to "bad players" specifically and more removing visible gaps in gameplay between all skill levels in order to mask anything players could use to be critical of each other.

But that's not really possible. People will be critical of each other and say nasty things to each other no matter how much you hide their gameplay from one another. You don't need a DPS meter for someone to tell you that you're playing badly. They don't even need to be right. People will find ways to blame their teammates no matter what game they play.

So I do think they're catering to a certain group of players, it's just that those players aren't one specific skill level, but rather people who can't mind their own business.

Other job is easier than mine! Other job gets this toy, why doesn't my job get this toy.

I think it's that and people who want to play jobs for the style or fantasy of playing the job but don't actually like how the job plays. Which I think is a valid complaint if it's coming from the majority of people who main that job. Well, an overwhelming majority. If it's like 51% I think it's a bad move to act on a number like that.

But we can't really know that kind of thing easily.

So yeah, I do think they listen to feedback and look at gameplay metrics, but I think the goal that maintains the bottom line in their eyes is creating gameplay that minimizes friction between players by making them as self responsible for success as possible.

If they have to talk to each other, or one role has to do something that isn't the tank or healer, someone will get yelled at! And that person might cancel their sub.

It's just more of the game failing to facilitate interactions between players. Kind of like the culture around commendations being "just give it to the healer or whoever is left if the healer left too quickly" most of the time. Failed system even if some people use it with actual intention sometimes and commend someone for what they thought was good gameplay.

[Revash]

I still believe it's less catering to "bad players" specifically and more removing visible gaps in gameplay between all skill levels in order to mask anything players could use to be critical of each other.

But that's not really possible. People will be critical of each other and say nasty things to each other no matter how much you hide their gameplay from one another. You don't need a DPS meter for someone to tell you that you're playing badly. They don't even need to be right. People will find ways to blame their teammates no matter what game they play.

So I do think they're catering to a certain group of players, it's just that those players aren't one specific skill level, but rather people who can't mind their own business.

Other job is easier than mine! Other job gets this toy, why doesn't my job get this toy.

I think it's that and people who want to play jobs for the style or fantasy of playing the job but don't actually like how the job plays. Which I think is a valid complaint if it's coming from the majority of people who main that job. Well, an overwhelming majority. If it's like 51% I think it's a bad move to act on a number like that.

But we can't really know that kind of thing easily.

So yeah, I do think they listen to feedback and look at gameplay metrics, but I think the goal that maintains the bottom line in their eyes is creating gameplay that minimizes friction between players by making them as self responsible for success as possible.

If they have to talk to each other, or one role has to do something that isn't the tank or healer, someone will get yelled at! And that person might cancel their sub.

It's just more of the game failing to facilitate interactions between players. Kind of like the culture around commendations being "just give it to the healer or whoever is left if the healer left too quickly" most of the time. Failed system even if some people use it with actual intention sometimes and commend someone for what they thought was good gameplay.

I believe its one of the root causes of toxicity in WoW end-game environment. Your success being dependent on others. And if another player "fails to live up to your expectations" then like I mentioned before, gamers are emotional beings and will start their blame witch hunt. SE might be desperately fighting against it. And how successful they are? Well we got a 610+ page post to discuss it I guess.

[Grann-Goro]

I believe its one of the root causes of toxicity in WoW end-game environment. Your success being dependent on others. And if another player "fails to live up to your expectations" then like I mentioned before, gamers are emotional beings and will start their blame witch hunt. SE might be desperately fighting against it. And how successful they are? Well we got a 610+ page post to discuss it I guess.

I believe you're right, but at the same time it feels a little like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Teamplay creates friction between players ? Well then, let's remove teamplay almost entirely. Ok sure, but...

And again, why keep the player base divided into 3 roles if teamplay is so much of a problem ? What's the point in having so few differences between them ? Doesn't it create queues for almost nothing at the end ? Wouldn't it be simpler to put all players in an unique role ?

In fact, that's already pretty much what they did in the new type of dungeon of Endwalker. And to me, the damage the holy trinity suffered in this game is so big and goes for so long now, that the only way to make the game somehow coherent now is to simply get rid of the trinity !
It's really sad to me, but it's the better thing to do I guess...
They can't turn back now. Too many people have joined since Shadowbringer now, and too many people like the game the way it is now.