#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[IDontPetLalas]

I agree actually but this sort of thing really could be part of the reason there is so much pushback to the strike. There is a fairly common perception I am seeing being muttered about in game. Some DPS players that have little sympathy with the healers situation since they don't perceive many healers as doing their role as it is.

Before I get attacked I have repeatedly in this thread supported you guys and the strike. I still do. I am just reporting what I am hearing in game and trying to do it in a civil manner.

I believe that there are players in any role that don't live up to certain expectation, healers are no exception. Nor does vague reference of "fairly common" perceptions means much, with all due respect. This has likely existed from some players for years, I could also point to the same for other roles, so what would you suggest that healers do? Just stay quiet because some players aren't perfect? Sounds rather hypocritical honestly when that bar is not set for other roles.

[Myrany]

I believe that there are players in any role that don't live up to certain expectation, healers are no exception. Nor does vague reference of "fairly common" perceptions means much, with all due respect. This has likely existed from some players for years, I could also point to the same for other roles, so what would you suggest that healers do? Just stay quiet because some players aren't perfect? Sounds rather hypocritical honestly when that bar is not set for other roles.

I wasn't asking healers to do anything. Simply reporting the grumbling I am hearing in the game itself so you maybe have an idea where some of the pushback is coming from. If you are not interested that is fine. Ignore my post.

Yes all roles have their issues with failing to perform. This is a thread about healers. I am trying to help not fight with you guys.

[Absurdity]

This is a player problem not a design problem though. You could give jobs the most fun, engaging rotations and buttons but if some players refuse to engage with their tools you can't really force them to.

If your healer refuses to perform their role, you report and move on. Healers being designed with 1 nuke button and 20 healing skills doesn't make them "heal more".

Considering the amount of "Medica 2 and then stand around doing nothing"-healers I still regularly see who completely fold when that tactic doesn't work...no, no it does not make them heal more.
It especially doesn't help when the other roles do your job for you, because then they really never need to learn in the first place.

Of course the same applies to DPS and tanks as well. Redmages who hardcast Veraero/Verthunder III/Impact, Freestyle Samurai who have never even heard of AoE, Warriors who somehow still manage to die in dungeons because they never even press Bloodwhetting (or any other mitigation for that matter), Dark Knights who think TBN is the only mitigation the job has, Dancers that never use Closed Position, DoT-less Bards (less relevant nowadays), ice mages. They have existed forever and still do.

But having job gameplay designed around those players is certainly a decision of all time.

[Punslinger]

As a DPS player I used to have absolute trust that healers had my back if things went sideways. I don't really have that faith as much these days. I have run into far too many healers who have the attitude of DPS don't get heals unless they happen to be caught in an area heal. I also have run into many that will not rez a DPS even after a fight no matter what. So I go into dungeons these days being pretty darn careful that I keep my 2nd wind at the ready and a stack of potions too boot. If I die I run back just as I did years ago in WoW. I find it sad how things have changed really.

It turns out that when the dev team dumbs down a role, dummies make up more of the role's population. Dummies are attracted to the role because it becomes a ticket to getting carried through fights, and skilled players abandon the role because they don't want to be carried. The resulting poor performance is then used by dummies and non-healers to clamor for further dumbing down in a never-ending ouroboros of stupidity.

At this point it's starting to feel like the devs are running out of ideas on how to meaningfully improve the job kits in general given that almost everything introduced in DT is either bloated potencies gated behind one/two minute cooldowns, overkill healing utility for DPS, or more mitigation/healing CD bloat for tanks/heakers.

Partly, it's because the job design team is the same four people who started in ARR, even though we now have twice the number of jobs in the game.

Partly, it's because CBU3 has designed themselves into a corner, by warping the entire game around two-minute bursts (on offense) and one-shots (on defense). If you look at WoW, you can see that there are many more things healers can do, if you have fights that aren't just Dance Dance Revolution in disguise.

Partly, it's because every game has a finite design space, and if you keep adding new things to jobs, you're eventually going to run out of space. Honestly, I think that the approach to class/job design in MMOs should be to stop changing the job once it's in a good place. Then, if players want to try new things, that's what new jobs are for. You don't need to keep adding still more finishers and bloat, or removing job identity and homogenizing the jobs, just to give players an illusion that VerThisIsTheLastRdmFinisherWeSwearForRealThisTime changes their play in any meaningful way.

[IDontPetLalas]

I wasn't asking healers to do anything. Simply reporting the grumbling I am hearing in the game itself so you maybe have an idea where some of the pushback is coming from. If you are not interested that is fine. Ignore my post.

Yes all roles have their issues with failing to perform. This is a thread about healers. I am trying to help not fight with you guys.

I'll try again. It isn't anything that hasn't been reported, given what we just said (all roles have issues with failing to perform) in the past 10 years, I'm not surprised that someone will say " I had a glaremage, healer didn't even have esuna on their hotbar, was watching Netflix" and more, amongst the size of the player population that we have. I'm not fighting with you, my point is literally- if you're posting this - imagine that you were invested in the healerstrike, what would you do with the information that you provided? how do you think it's going to help healers?

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

They can't stop extending the RDM sword chain until we're at VerUltima and only then will it be complete.

/s

[Myrany]

It turns out that when the dev team dumbs down a role, dummies make up more of the role's population. Dummies are attracted to the role because it becomes a ticket to getting carried through fights, and skilled players abandon the role because they don't want to be carried. The resulting poor performance is then used by dummies and non-healers to clamor for further dumbing down in a never-ending ouroboros of stupidity.

I have never asked for dumbing down healers. I have supported your efforts in this thread. Simply commented on how sad it is that things have come to this point.

Trust me I understand the amount of hate that comes from being dumbed down. I played summoner before all the big changes and loved it. Now I rarely touch it. Getting your class gutted is never fun. Being ignored by the devs for years after the gutting is worse.

[Myrany]

I'll try again. It isn't anything that hasn't been reported, given what we just said (all roles have issues with failing to perform) in the past 10 years, I'm not surprised that someone will say " I had a glaremage, healer didn't even have esuna on their hotbar, was watching Netflix" and more, amongst the size of the player population that we have. I'm not fighting with you, my point is literally- if you're posting this - imagine that you were invested in the healerstrike, what would you do with the information that you provided? how do you think it's going to help healers?

I would be aware at least having been provided with the information that this is a quarter the pushback is coming from. Not everyone is aware. Information is always good. You know the ground you are fighting from better.

Now if you want me to bow out of the thread because I no longer heal? Fine just ask I will. I am trying to contribute what I can where I can. Nothing more.

[hunter2]

I did some calculations from what was in that casual score spreadsheet. Gotta be honest, these numbers are a lot higher than I was expecting. Obvious caveats apply - that guy's data is only based on publicly logged clears during Endwalker, it doesn't count whether someone is for or against the strike, it doesn't account for people using alts on the forums, etc.

[ZephyrMenodora]

This is a player problem not a design problem though. You could give jobs the most fun, engaging rotations and buttons but if some players refuse to engage with their tools you can't really force them to.

If your healer refuses to perform their role, you report and move on. Healers being designed with 1 nuke button and 20 healing skills doesn't make them "heal more".

I think it's partially a design problem and partially a player problem.

Healers have been trained for years now that people don't really need to be healed and they can just mindlessly spam their DPS skill and not pay attention. If they had to be kept on their toes for everything but the very occasional unavoidable damage (that is also often telegraphed, even to the extent that sometimes you can't do anything at all but wait for a mini-cutscene for the damage to come through), they'd have a mindset to heal more regularly and keep a DPS's health higher.

The player part of the problem is an elitist mentality that a DPS should never get hit by something avoidable, which is just toxic elitism on the part of the healer.