#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Jeycht]

Even Reaper has more than their basic combo, healers don't, that's probably the difference

Again. And I guess that gonna be a lot of repeat.
But it's only an illusion.
When you are not doing 123, you are doing a forced 12131213124. Is that better? I don't think so. There is nothing engaging in any other jobs. You are only doing what you are supposed to do in the right order.
When I played dragoon back in HW I had a rotation that didn't repeat for 1min+. Now it's 12345 67854 and repeat, ogcd are fluff, you click them because they are there.

Again what's missing is interaction with fights. Not more buttons.

[Jeycht]

Because the game design went in a completely different direction for those classes. The game gave them too many damage options in too many different sequences, and it became a nuisance. It's the opposite end of the spectrum for healers.

It's not, they have simplified every jobs (see my post above)

[Eorzean_username]

I mean, there is a lot of people (dps and tank) willing to have all combo on 1 button to only have to click 1111111; making it the same as an actual healer.
So the question is, why those people want a gameplay that looks like healers, but healers want it more? It's weird.

This is disingenuous. There is significantly more to any Tank or DPS offensive Action set than their primary combo. Even if you gave them Auto-Combo as a consolidation option, they would still have plenty of other sequences and Actions in their total DPS tool-set.

In the current Healer design, if the only change that you made was to give healers a 1-2-3 Auto-Combo, then Healers would be less visually-monotonous, but still have essentially nothing else to do, manage, track, or engage-with systematically when occupying GCD time.

Have you done dungeons with random healer or are you always doing them as healer? Same with any content lvl90, trial or normal raid. Are you playing with a healer friend? You won't make me believe you never saw (or rarely) a healer not dpsing AT ALL when being MAX lvl and not first timer. Or you are not playing the same game as me. Or only spaming medica/cure or equivalent

Do you know how many scholars I see spamming physick at level 90?

This occurred in ARR, HW, and SB, also.

All you are doing is confirming that dismantling and hyper-simplifying Healers has done nothing to actually "help" the subset of Players that do not comprehend, or perhaps do not care, about how the gameplay system is intended to function.

Therefore, once again, the changes harm more motivated Players while changing essentially nothing about the situation for unmotivated or confused Players.

It seems like the developers should invest more time and energy into encouraging players to learn to play "as intended", rather than trying to figure-out how to delete even more functionality and mechanics from the Jobs and Roles.

you know that this is unhealthy right? getting extremely aggravated bc someone wants to play a certain class lol. hope you get better.

The person that you quoted was obviously aggravated about the fact that the presence of a specific Job means that said person's entire Role will be essentially-unnecessary in a piece of content that is designated as requiring a Trinity Party to enter and complete.

It is not unreasonable nor unhealthy to feel "aggravated" if you were looking forward to playing a specific mini-game, promised by the User Interface that you would be playing a specific mini-game, and then randomly find out upon loading into the server that you actually won't be playing that mini-game, but you are still contractually-obligated to spend 20 minutes of your time following someone else around and watching them play it.

[Kazmarek]

If those Scholars you met were still spamming Physick with LV90 kit, how’s giving them more heal buttons in DT going to convince them to cast otherwise?

How's giving them anything going to convince them to cast otherwise? They already don't interact with broil, or bio, or art of war. They don't interact with their faerie, or with aetherflow, or the seraph. I think we're both saying the same thing. They're already not interacting with the kit they have, how's changing anything going to convince them to do otherwise if all they're capable of doing is spamming physick? This doesn't just go for scholars, either. It's white mages spamming cure 1 at level 90 ignoring the rest of their buttons, it's astros not bothering with their cards, it's sages.... To be entirely honest I don't actually see a lot of bad sages, so good on sages, but the other 3? A rework's not going to fix people already ignoring 95% of their buttons.

[Jeycht]

This is disingenuous. There is significantly more to any Tank or DPS offensive Action set than their primary combo. Even if you gave them Auto-Combo as a consolidation option, they would still have plenty of other sequences and Actions in their total DPS tool-set.

In the current Healer design, if the only change that you made was to give healers a 1-2-3 Auto-Combo, then Healers would be less visually-monotonous, but still have essentially nothing else to do, manage, track, or engage-with systematically when occupying GCD time.

This occurred in ARR, HW, and SB, also.

All you are doing is confirming that dismantling and hyper-simplifying Healers has done nothing to actually "help" the subset of Players that do not comprehend, or perhaps do not care, about how the gameplay system is intended to function.

Therefore, once again, the changes harm more motivated Players while changing essentially nothing about the situation for unmotivated or confused Players.


Edit: Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't want change. Everything need change and not healer only. But I definitly don't want a pseudo "more engaging" healer by simply adding a proc and some more buttons here and there to have a "rotation"

It seems like the developers should invest more time and energy into encouraging players to learn to play "as intended", rather than trying to figure-out how to delete even more functionality and mechanics from the Jobs and Roles.

The person that you quoted was obviously aggravated about the fact that the presence of a specific Job means that said person's entire Role will be essentially-unnecessary in a piece of content that is designated as requiring a Trinity Party to enter and complete.

It is not unreasonable nor unhealthy to feel "aggravated" if you were looking forward to playing a specific mini-game, promised by the User Interface that you would be playing a specific mini-game, and then randomly find out upon loading into the server that you actually won't be playing that mini-game, but you are still contractually-obligated to spend 20 minutes of your time following someone else around and watching them play it.

There is nothing to manage for any jobs outside of savage and ultimate. Again, not a healer only problem. Looks like people enjoy ignorant what actually happen for other jobs.
You won't tell me you don't have to manage anything as healer in savage week1. After that the gear make the diff.

For your second part, what do you want to keep on your game as a dev? The minority that probably gonna stay (or at worst leave but whatever) or the majority ?

In fact, the problem aren't jobs only, they are fights too. Atleast I feel (and I insist on feel, maybe I'm wrong) fight were more engaging. But since they nerf everything anyway, even basic dungeons, taking off mech too.

[Hellebore_Ghrian]

In fact, the problem aren't jobs only, they are fights too. Atleast I feel (and I insist on feel, maybe I'm wrong) fight were more engaging. But since they nerf everything anyway, even basic dungeons, taking off mech too.

Majority of us knows that jobs AND fight design are problems. It's even in the manifesto in the 1st post. But what is easier to fix 1st? jobs by tweaking/adding/removing some skills or rebuilding years of content?

[Jeycht]

Majority of us know that jobs AND fight design are problems. It's even in the manifesto in the 1st post. But what is easier to fix 1st ? jobs buy tweaking/adding/removing some skill or rebuild years of contents ?

You don't have to rebuild years of content, old content is old, there is nothing to do about them. They will be easier no matter what because of change from everything. No point changing that.

For some reason my edit in previous post didn't apply so I gonna repeat it here since it's relevant with your post.

I don't want a pseudo rotation by adding a proc and more buttons here and there to feel like I'm doing something. It's not what gonna change healers since I feel the same way for other jobs.

[GoodPerson]

There is nothing to manage for any jobs outside of savage and ultimate. Again, not a healer only problem. Looks like people enjoy ignorant what actually happen for other jobs.
You won't tell me you don't have to manage anything as healer in savage week1. After that the gear make the diff.

For your second part, what do you want to keep on your game as a dev? The minority that probably gonna stay (or at worst leave but whatever) or the majority ?

In fact, the problem aren't jobs only, they are fights too. Atleast I feel (and I insist on feel, maybe I'm wrong) fight were more engaging. But since they nerf everything anyway, even basic dungeons, taking off mech too.

To briefly chime in (also in response to your other post), the illusion of fun and engagement, is still fun. Job actions(especially in context to tanks and dps) are more nuanced than just "12345 67854 and repeat, ogcd are fluff". They have interactivity and depth within the kit, regardless if you want to just call 12 3(dot) on dragoon the same as 12 3(dot) on monk the same they're more than just 123. More importantly, Dps have a pay off that's fun to achieve in the way of i.e Monk's Masterful Blitz , or in DRGs case ... Geirskogul? (I don't play DRG sorry but you know what I mean.)

Dps still get to manage these parts of their class in and out of soft-mid-and hardcore content, barring being level syncd. Healers do Not.

And in response to not having anything to manage to heal in savage week 1, actually, yes! While it's isn't "nothing" , the tried and true method of simply throwing out a ogcd twice (or at times once) per raid wide and truck on mashing glare is usually the defacto prog method (Edit: Just remembered WHM generally couple raid wides with a Medicia 2+Aslyum when they want to be extra safe. But, Generally, if the cohealer is atleast doing something, only one of these is usually enough) . Beyond that once you start getting into optimization, healers generally optimize the fastest of the roles in terms of where to sprinkle their ogcds, which is admittedly where most of the fun is. Also in Week 1 prog, you're more likely to cause a wipe due to: [Body check, Enrage, Too many vuln stacks, Failed Mechanic] than you are lack of healing. Even being generous, your casts as a progging healer are going to be your primary damage button and maybe the occasional spot heals on tanks as they acclimate to what the encounter is demanding of them, as spamming Medicia equivalent or cure equivalent just burns your mana pool which then stops you from using Res lol.

Also! Dps still get to engage in the content in a meaningful way beyond week 1, even with gear. Healers just kind of get stuck with popping a MND pot and using CDs more aggressively, which stills ends up being mashing 1.

[tatagi]

The very first thing on the 'manifesto' is an attack on other classes. So tired of this. Fixing healers is one thing, nerfing everyone else so you can feel better about your class is another.

Does this mean if 4 healers manage to beat the mediatour dungeon you would be fine with all DPS being taken off healers? It encroaches on other roles right?

[Supersnow845]

The very first thing on the 'manifesto' is an attack on other classes. So tired of this. Fixing healers is one thing, nerfing everyone else so you can feel better about your class is another.

Does this mean if 4 healers manage to beat the mediatour dungeon you would be fine with all DPS being taken off healers? It encroaches on other roles right?

Because the healing the other jobs does is just fundamentally at odds with how a holy trinity works, especially one like 14 that puts out so little damage as 14 does

Let’s say they didn’t nerf WAR but gave healers a decent combo system or a bunch of dots or what have you. If I get a WAR (or a PLD or a GNB or even a SMN that knows how to put rekindle on the tank) all I’m doing is playing a green caster that does 40% less damage than actual caster.

I want a more complex rotation but I want to actually heal, i dont want the tank to do it for me. Changes to the other roles have already eroded healer to next to nothing why are they acceptable but asking the trinity to be rebalanced is not