#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kathryn]

What agenda? I'm not playing healers in DT because I'm bored of them, what agenda do I even have?

Also, if you want to show yourself to the world, that's your prerogative, I don't.

Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

[Supersnow845]

Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

Again can you please tell us what showing our raid logs will add to our stance in this conversation

We have been attacked both ways at being too good and not good enough for this game, what will seeing our true logs do in this sense, if you don’t want to attack us as being too good then our logs are meaningless, if you want to assert we aren’t good enough to be making this argument then why are we also getting attacked for being too good

[Evergrey]

Again can you please tell us what showing our raid logs will add to our stance in this conversation

We have been attacked both ways at being too good and not good enough for this game, what will seeing our true logs do in this sense, if you don’t want to attack us as being too good then our logs are meaningless, if you want to assert we aren’t good enough to be making this argument then why are we also getting attacked for being too good

I can't say for what others have in mind regarding logs being too bad or too good.
But my personal thoughts from reading what you said is that those few logs I've stumbled across through out this thread has more or less been from statics that know every mechanic.
And we all know, that a group that knows a fight in an out won't take as much damage meaning less opportunities for healers to heal.
So maybe a log from a Party Finder pog group could give a better view when a group isn't coordinated and well oiled.
Give the numbers of how a group with accidents might look like.

[OdinelStarrei]

I can't say for what others have in mind regarding logs being too bad or too good.
But my personal thoughts from reading what you said is that those few logs I've stumbled across through out this thread has more or less been from statics that know every mechanic.
And we all know, that a group that knows a fight in an out won't take as much damage meaning less opportunities for healers to heal.
So maybe a log from a Party Finder pog group could give a better view when a group isn't cordinated and well oiled.
Give the numbers of how a group with accidents might look like.

There's not going to be a lot of logs like that in more recent expansions, because if there is a group that has an accident, you don't clear.

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters. If someone "makes a mistake" in P9S limit cut, how exactly are we going to salvage that pull? That's the first fight. We're not even talking about P10S or P12S.

Sure, we have things like "DeathCOB" as our fringe outlier, but even content outside of savage, things like Criterion or Delubrum Savage make it a point to demand mechanical consistency above all else, because the consequence is a wipe that the healers cannot recover from, not because they don't have the resources, but because the fight mechanics will force death. I'm not promoting zombie'ing through fights, but I am saying there is a reason people are kinda over getting body checked every 2 minutes.

[Evergrey]

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters.

That's also one thing, a lot of the danger evolves around 1-shot mechanics and if too many fail one there's not enough time to recover from it.
If instead a fight have less 1-shit but more heavy hitting attacks instead.
It's been a while since I played any other MMO on a regular basis so can't really come up with any good comparisons.
But in those the bosses mostly hit more frequently and the fights aren't designed to always be foguth in a more or less stationary position like FFXIV boss arenas.

Regardless, maybe it's not the lack of healers to do during downtimes in a fight that's the major issue, but that the fights themselves are designed in such a way that there aren't much for the healer to do.
Bosses hit in a slow fashion, almost each and every hard hitting ability has a several seconds castbar.
The fights leave little for accidents to happen for healers to heal up.

Before we didn't have stuff like Tankbusters adding a visual marker on a player, and many of the boss's skills weren't marked either.


Edit:

From my own perspective, a tanks self healing is (or should at least) be a "oh, crap" button for when something hits too hard or missed to pop a defensive, giving a healer some time to top them up again.
But since the fights leave so little to accidents, a tank can easily use those "panic" buttons to sustain themselves.

[OdinelStarrei]

That's also one thing, a lot of the danger evolves around 1-shot mechanics and if too many fail one there's not enough time to recover from it.
If instead a fight have less 1-shit but more heavy hitting attacks instead.
It's been a while since I played any other MMO on a regular basis so can't really come up with any good comparisons.
But in those the bosses mostly hit more frequently and the fights aren't designed to always be foguth in a more or less stationary position like FFXIV boss arenas.

Regardless, maybe it's not the lack of healers to do during downtimes in a fight that's the major issue, but that the fights themselves are designed in such a way that there aren't much for the healer to do.
Bosses hit in a slow fashion, almost each and every hard hitting ability has a several seconds castbar.
The fights leave little for accidents to happen for healers to heal up.

Before we didn't have stuff like Tankbusters adding a visual marker on a player, and many of the boss's skills weren't marked either.

This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

But I will highlight that it's not "too many" people failing a mechanic leading to a wipe. It's one person doing something major, or sometimes minor incorrectly, and the result is the entire party exploding instantly. It's okay to have those things in fights. But when it's every fight, I feel that it starts breaking the trinity somewhat, outside of the more common issues detailed in this thread, because you didn't wipe because "the tank didn't get aggro" or "the dps check was failed" or "the healers were out of MP", you failed because Player 5 was out of position on mechanic sequence 4, or Player 2 didn't read their partner's debuff correctly and did 999999 damage to the group.

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.

[Evergrey]

This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

But I will highlight that it's not "too many" people failing a mechanic leading to a wipe. It's one person doing something major, or sometimes minor incorrectly, and the result is the entire party exploding instantly. It's okay to have those things in fights. But when it's every fight, I feel that it starts breaking the trinity somewhat, outside of the more common issues detailed in this thread, because you didn't wipe because "the tank didn't get aggro" or "the dps check was failed" or "the healers were out of MP", you failed because Player 5 was out of position on mechanic sequence 4, or Player 2 didn't read their partner's debuff correctly and did 999999 damage to the group.

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.

Mm.. a lot of the higher tier fights (I've only done savage pandemonium 1-5 so can't speak for all) really required the group as a whole to know what to do and where to stand, or else it can really crumble fast.
Which is counteractive when I think that a Healers toolkit is designed around a fight where accidents happen.
But since every fight is static with its rotations and mechanics are more or less all marked out, accidents are less likely to happen.
Unless ofc new to a fight and learning said boss patterns.


Edit:

The simplest solution I can think of would be to make that a boss's auto attacks at least would hit for harder.
And that is the bare minimum to give healers something to heal up during a boss fight.

[Absurdity]

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.

A feeling I absolutely share. It leaves no room for the party to make up for weaker players, either everyone executes mechanics perfectly all the time or you get 0 progression done, let alone actually see enrage.

[Gemina]

This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

This is such a great take. And while this isn't kind of difficulty healers are asking for in normal mode content, this encounter is a great example of how contributions are equal across the board, and everyone feels rewarded when victory is achieved. However, even the NM version of this fight when it was released was simply chaotic fun and is the last encounter I can recall where players actually stuck around after to talk about it and pass on congratulations to everyone for a job well done. Barbariccia set a golden standard, and I wish we had more fight like her. I also don't recall anyone complaining how difficult she was, and if there were those voices, they were drowned out by how fun the encounter was designed.

[PercibelTheren]

There's not going to be a lot of logs like that in more recent expansions, because if there is a group that has an accident, you don't clear.

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters. If someone "makes a mistake" in P9S limit cut, how exactly are we going to salvage that pull? That's the first fight. We're not even talking about P10S or P12S.

Sure, we have things like "DeathCOB" as our fringe outlier, but even content outside of savage, things like Criterion or Delubrum Savage make it a point to demand mechanical consistency above all else, because the consequence is a wipe that the healers cannot recover from, not because they don't have the resources, but because the fight mechanics will force death. I'm not promoting zombie'ing through fights, but I am saying there is a reason people are kinda over getting body checked every 2 minutes.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of bodychecks, either. I think a major part of a healer's skillset is not panicking when everything goes south, going into triage mode and pulling the group through the situation. Most Endwalker fights don't let you do that, though. One person screws up, everyone dies. This is why I'm much more in favor of stuff like soft enrages (like P5S) and other "punishments" for failing a mechanic, like vuln stacks or debuffs that can be Esuna'd.