#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[HighlanderClone]

I don't think we need much more proof of what's wrong with the current design then those ability usage ratios in ultimate speedruns.

Just to remind people:

Also, picture(s) say a thousand words:

Scholar casts in top 5 speedrun, Savage, A12S/O12Sp2/E12Sp2/P12Sp2

HW:



SB:



ShB



EW



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50th percentile Scholar, Savage, A12S/O12Sp2/E12Sp2/P12Sp2

HW



SB



ShB



EW



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10th percentile Scholar, Savage, A12S/O12Sp2/E12Sp2/P12Sp2

HW



SB



ShB



EW

[HighlanderClone]

when we are talking about what is enjoyable in a game and what not (and that is the main focus of the discussion). That will always be a discussion about subjective things for the most part. For example that healers press only 1 gcd button for the majority of their rotation is an objective fact but that it is boring or bad that that is subjective. Something subjective a lot of people understandably agree with but it doesn't change the fact that is subjective and that some people can feel different about it as well (that is just an example though to illustrate that point). and because it is about something subjective their opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

The developers should figure out a way so that players who want to click 1 GCD can still merely click 1 GCD while others who don't can choose to.

You can have your cake and eat it too. The developers just need to think beyond the current design paradigm to consider how best to cater to both casual players and high-end players.

[mellii]

The developers should figure out a way so that players who want to click 1 GCD can still merely click 1 GCD while others who don't can choose to.

You can have your cake and eat it too. The developers just need to think beyond the current design paradigm to consider how best to cater to both casual players and high-end players.

With that I totally agree. my point though was anyway just illustrating the difference between something objective and something subjective and not to just tell other people to play something different if they are happy with how it is right now and wouldn't like some changes that would would not be optional

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

The developers should figure out a way so that players who want to click 1 GCD can still merely click 1 GCD while others who don't can choose to.

You can have your cake and eat it too. The developers just need to think beyond the current design paradigm to consider how best to cater to both casual players and high-end players.

That's pretty much just Summoner, those players can have a niche in one of the 14 DPS roles not 4/4 healers

[mellii]

I think regardless of preferences, it defeats the purpose of the entire combat system. The point of a hotbar style RPG is to have a full hotbar of different actions that you actively switch between. Imagine playing Xenoblade Chronicles, but Shulk’s only action is Back Slash. Everything else either has an incredibly long cooldown, or is highly niche and rarely used, so Shulk just spams Back Slash for most of the fight in every fight from the start of the game to the end of the game. I question how positively the player base would’ve responded to a design decision like that.

true, like I said totally understandable not liking it. My issue was mainly with telling people off to just play something else if they like and that was all I was discussing.

And I think the player base would respond negatively to that. But I don't find it impossible to imagine that at least some people would find it more enjoyable as well. And in that case as well I would have issues as well with people telling them "just play something else" if they voice that they like it. My only issue is with people putting their own opinion as more objective than other peoples opinion when it comes to the subjective parts.

[HighlanderClone]

I'm so confused as to why people are saying that the issue with healer is not a content/game design issue when it literally is by all definition when you look at the primary complaints coming from healer.

I don't know if people were mean to you or whatever since I'm not reading through the entire thread.

But this point has already been addressed. Please look at the casts of final floor savages. A12S truly did not have that much more healing than P12S. Neither did O12S (the hard ones that xpac were in 4 and 8).

Same healing required by the encounter but much more different playstyles required of the player, at all skill levels. There is only one variable that changed: the job kits.

Additionally some of us have repeatedly said that you had to use your entire kit even in dungeons in HW and SB if you wanted to be optimal. Furthermore healerless dungeon runs in HW was next to impossible on patch, and in SB they were still difficult even with a Red Mage. Without a RDM or a PLD they were next to impossible too.

It is not set in stone that dungeons have to be so casual that you can efficiently run through them without using 80% of your kit. This isn't just a problem with WAR. I've done many GNB runs with 3 DPS, including with casual players. It's trivial.

We have gone from healerless runs in dungeons being outright impossible with almost all compositions to now healerless runs being trivial on 3 tanks and doable on DRK.

Do you really think the variable that changed was the dungeon damage profile?

[ZephyrMenodora]

The biggest problem with this thread, like most forum threads, is that many of the people expressing discontent disagree strongly with each other on how to resolve the situation and/or improve healing in the game. Almost everyone here is suggesting a different idea, and almost every different idea directly contradicts another person's idea.

There are plenty of people here who have even disagreed outright with the original post's comments, general complaints, and suggested remedies, while still agreeing with disliking the general state of healing.

All this would be much more effective if we: 1, figure out what exactly we want changed; 2, figure out exactly how to change it; 3, articulate that specific point without deviation.

Unfortunately, this thread has become incomprehensible because many people are complaining about different aspects and/or suggesting fixes that contradict other suggested fixes. The narrative (if there even is one) makes no sense and would be unhelpful for any developer who may want to improve the healing aspects of the game. A reader of this thread hardly would be able to figure out what, exactly, people want here because nearly everyone wants something different.

Right now the message is basically: "We don't like it!" When asked, "How do we fix it then?" the answers are "ALKWJERLKEMGLRGLKESJRELKSJRL," a crowd of individuals all shouting different things. I doubt we'll see any positive changes unless we can agree and articulate those points of agreement in a consistent and polite manner.

I think here though the healers in support of the thread are united that the present state of healing is unacceptable, and I'm sure that we would compromise in ways that make the class more exciting.

I don't really want more focus on DPS, but I will sure take more interesting DPS skill interactions. Even healers that want more DPS also are okay with increasing healing necessity through more situations healing is needed.

Just because we don't agree on maybe some minutia, doesn't mean we should throw our hands up in the air.

Consistency wise regardless of different ideas on smaller details I've seen almost no one disagreeing that:

1. Healer's don't actually need to heal that much.
2. Casting 1 skill over and over is boring.

It's a start just there.

[GoodPerson]

The biggest problem with this thread, like most forum threads, is that many of the people expressing discontent disagree strongly with each other on how to resolve the situation and/or improve healing in the game. Almost everyone here is suggesting a different idea, and almost every different idea directly contradicts another person's idea.

There are plenty of people here who have even disagreed outright with the original post's comments, general complaints, and suggested remedies, while still agreeing with disliking the general state of healing.

All this would be much more effective if we: 1, figure out what exactly we want changed; 2, figure out exactly how to change it; 3, articulate that specific point without deviation.

Unfortunately, this thread has become incomprehensible because many people are complaining about different aspects and/or suggesting fixes that contradict other suggested fixes. The narrative (if there even is one) makes no sense and would be unhelpful for any developer who may want to improve the healing aspects of the game. A reader of this thread hardly would be able to figure out what, exactly, people want here because nearly everyone wants something different.

Right now the message is basically: "We don't like it!" When asked, "How do we fix it then?" the answers are "ALKWJERLKEMGLRGLKESJRELKSJRL," a crowd of individuals all shouting different things. I doubt we'll see any positive changes unless we can agree and articulate those points of agreement in a consistent and polite manner.

The point of the thread isn't strictly to "have suggestions" as much as it is to bring notice to it and list what we generally would like fixed. We already have over the years culminated a number of suggestions (Mostly thanks to threads like the This healer one from 2020. As ultimately, we aren't or majority of us aren't game developers and its more up to YoshiP and his team to hopefully deliver a solution that helps what healers have been asking for the last 4+ years.

With that said there's some nice general suggestions around but the general "Desire" floats around:
"
1. Return of unique playstyles and iconic/fun abilities such as aero 3, varied cards, selene and so forth. End this horrible Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis spam!
2. Better communication with the dev team regarding how the jobs will evolve. If the devs aren't sure how to expand healers, there's a wide range of players they could turn to for suggestions and ideas"
Probably some more, but those are probably the most common issues desired to be addressed