#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Aravell]

Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

Cool, thanks for playing psychologist for me, now I don't have to pay for a real one.

[Evergrey]

I can't argue with nostalgia, but that's the only real value Cleric Stance had: nostalgia.

To each their own, I say.

[Supersnow845]

Thats fine, you are not open to criticism, you are scared of it so you hide behind an alt instead of showing your accomplishments that makes healers boring and are certainly not needed for all content, that's fine I now know for certain this thread isnt a serious one and I will leave you all to it, it got boring reading all the players attacking eachother instead of seeing a real discussion.

Again can you please tell us what showing our raid logs will add to our stance in this conversation

We have been attacked both ways at being too good and not good enough for this game, what will seeing our true logs do in this sense, if you don’t want to attack us as being too good then our logs are meaningless, if you want to assert we aren’t good enough to be making this argument then why are we also getting attacked for being too good

[OdinelStarrei]

I understand this can happen but document the messages with screenshots, blacklist the person and send it to SE these people will get their accounts banned and rightfully so.

What do you think I've done? Me and the GMs are on good terms, I assure you. As for discord, well if it's coming from a new account with a newly created email address, there's not much you can do but refuse DMs from all people not on the friends list. Imagine having someone fishing and proding for your other online accounts simply because you weren't happy about the tank reworks, so you can get heckled off platform.

You've seen it. The insults, the joy people will take in deliberately aggravating other people, or going out of their way to misinterpret some pretty well established guidelines. We don't have moderators here to police inflammatory statements. We don't have community leaders who are going to advocate for us, because the "silent majority" will always be larger than us. We don't have frequent communications about the issues we really care about. And we are constantly surrounded by arguments, and accusations.

So, again. I don't blame anyone for not signing themselves up to be screwed with. It's really troubling after awhile. A nihilistic perspective is understandable.

[Evergrey]

Again can you please tell us what showing our raid logs will add to our stance in this conversation

We have been attacked both ways at being too good and not good enough for this game, what will seeing our true logs do in this sense, if you don’t want to attack us as being too good then our logs are meaningless, if you want to assert we aren’t good enough to be making this argument then why are we also getting attacked for being too good

I can't say for what others have in mind regarding logs being too bad or too good.
But my personal thoughts from reading what you said is that those few logs I've stumbled across through out this thread has more or less been from statics that know every mechanic.
And we all know, that a group that knows a fight in an out won't take as much damage meaning less opportunities for healers to heal.
So maybe a log from a Party Finder pog group could give a better view when a group isn't coordinated and well oiled.
Give the numbers of how a group with accidents might look like.

[OdinelStarrei]

I can't say for what others have in mind regarding logs being too bad or too good.
But my personal thoughts from reading what you said is that those few logs I've stumbled across through out this thread has more or less been from statics that know every mechanic.
And we all know, that a group that knows a fight in an out won't take as much damage meaning less opportunities for healers to heal.
So maybe a log from a Party Finder pog group could give a better view when a group isn't cordinated and well oiled.
Give the numbers of how a group with accidents might look like.

There's not going to be a lot of logs like that in more recent expansions, because if there is a group that has an accident, you don't clear.

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters. If someone "makes a mistake" in P9S limit cut, how exactly are we going to salvage that pull? That's the first fight. We're not even talking about P10S or P12S.

Sure, we have things like "DeathCOB" as our fringe outlier, but even content outside of savage, things like Criterion or Delubrum Savage make it a point to demand mechanical consistency above all else, because the consequence is a wipe that the healers cannot recover from, not because they don't have the resources, but because the fight mechanics will force death. I'm not promoting zombie'ing through fights, but I am saying there is a reason people are kinda over getting body checked every 2 minutes.

[Rehayem]

I'm going to be really honest and up front with you, and not in a confrontational way, just want to talk about my experience.

I am someone who is doing exactly what you are saying. I am also a player who has been pretty critical of mostly tanks, but also healers and some other miscellaneous things SE has done.

Because I have not made any attempts to hide who I am, I have had players send me tells ingame and on discord telling me to kill myself, and worse, because all I do is "criticize the developers".

I don't blame anyone for using alts or taking measures to avoid harassment. This community has proven that the more fanatical types will go after people no problem.

Which is why I always laugh when people tell me "FFXIV has a great, positive community". No, it does not. It's toxic positivity at best, and it works like a hivemind many times. People are so enamored with the game, very few ever leave the honeymoon phase and will slander you for criticizing the game or the dev team. It's completely absurd.

SE nor the dev team cares about you, they just want your money, it's that simple. Had SE been a private company instead, then they wouldn't need to please shareholders.

[Evergrey]

The party just instantly dies. You're not even allowed to salvage most encounters.

That's also one thing, a lot of the danger evolves around 1-shot mechanics and if too many fail one there's not enough time to recover from it.
If instead a fight have less 1-shit but more heavy hitting attacks instead.
It's been a while since I played any other MMO on a regular basis so can't really come up with any good comparisons.
But in those the bosses mostly hit more frequently and the fights aren't designed to always be foguth in a more or less stationary position like FFXIV boss arenas.

Regardless, maybe it's not the lack of healers to do during downtimes in a fight that's the major issue, but that the fights themselves are designed in such a way that there aren't much for the healer to do.
Bosses hit in a slow fashion, almost each and every hard hitting ability has a several seconds castbar.
The fights leave little for accidents to happen for healers to heal up.

Before we didn't have stuff like Tankbusters adding a visual marker on a player, and many of the boss's skills weren't marked either.


Edit:

From my own perspective, a tanks self healing is (or should at least) be a "oh, crap" button for when something hits too hard or missed to pop a defensive, giving a healer some time to top them up again.
But since the fights leave so little to accidents, a tank can easily use those "panic" buttons to sustain themselves.

[Aravell]

So, again. I don't blame anyone for not signing themselves up to be screwed with. It's really troubling after awhile. A nihilistic perspective is understandable.

I always make sure to have as little of my info out as possible precisely so I don't have to deal with unhinged people who stalk others for simply having an opinion.

All anyone has to do is look at how vicious some people are in this very thread. Would anyone like being on the receiving end of that?

If someone wants to call me a coward who can't accept criticism because I don't want to paint a harassment target on myself, more power to them. I don't care about their opinion though, I care more about my own comfort than what some armchair psychologist on the internet thinks of how I act.

[OdinelStarrei]

That's also one thing, a lot of the danger evolves around 1-shot mechanics and if too many fail one there's not enough time to recover from it.
If instead a fight have less 1-shit but more heavy hitting attacks instead.
It's been a while since I played any other MMO on a regular basis so can't really come up with any good comparisons.
But in those the bosses mostly hit more frequently and the fights aren't designed to always be foguth in a more or less stationary position like FFXIV boss arenas.

Regardless, maybe it's not the lack of healers to do during downtimes in a fight that's the major issue, but that the fights themselves are designed in such a way that there aren't much for the healer to do.
Bosses hit in a slow fashion, almost each and every hard hitting ability has a several seconds castbar.
The fights leave little for accidents to happen for healers to heal up.

Before we didn't have stuff like Tankbusters adding a visual marker on a player, and many of the boss's skills weren't marked either.

This is honestly why something like Barbariccia EX were so well liked, it's probably the most unanimously praised fight in EW, an opinion I share. Rather than relying on debuff overload, or a really precise positioning for every member of the team, Barb was fast, there was always something happening or to plan for, damage was frequent, and one player making a mistake usually did not cascade into an immediate unrecoverable situation. But the underlying mechanics were straightforward to understand, there was no need for a twenty page toolbox or a 15 minute YT video. The fight builds upon itself, and I even think tanks have a solid time in there. There's a lot of good there. I think every role got their time to shine in that fight somehow.

But I will highlight that it's not "too many" people failing a mechanic leading to a wipe. It's one person doing something major, or sometimes minor incorrectly, and the result is the entire party exploding instantly. It's okay to have those things in fights. But when it's every fight, I feel that it starts breaking the trinity somewhat, outside of the more common issues detailed in this thread, because you didn't wipe because "the tank didn't get aggro" or "the dps check was failed" or "the healers were out of MP", you failed because Player 5 was out of position on mechanic sequence 4, or Player 2 didn't read their partner's debuff correctly and did 999999 damage to the group.

I feel that it promotes really frustrating and darwinistic perspectives for progressing through content.