Healer Survey:

[ForsakenRoe]

I actually set these up for...

WHM
SCH
AST
SGE

But I haven't posted them anywhere except in this post yet. Figure it'd be too redundant to have both this and Ren's running at the same time.

Damn, shame cos I think the data you could get from these would be a lot more precise and a much more easily tabulated format. And if both were run (or yours were done after Ren's) I assume a lot of people would just not bother with it, because 'didnt we already just get asked this', so it'd cause the data to be skewed towards 'people who feel so strongly about the subject they're willing to reiterate their stance over and over', aka people like us

[ty_taurus]

Damn, shame cos I think the data you could get from these would be a lot more precise and a much more easily tabulated format. And if both were run (or yours were done after Ren's) I assume a lot of people would just not bother with it, because 'didnt we already just get asked this', so it'd cause the data to be skewed towards 'people who feel so strongly about the subject they're willing to reiterate their stance over and over', aka people like us

Yeah I'll probably post them in a few weeks or so. Idk, will have to see. I also don't want to post another thread here that's basically the same as this one. Maybe it's worth putting up in general?

[ForsakenRoe]

Yeah I'll probably post them in a few weeks or so. Idk, will have to see. I also don't want to post another thread here that's basically the same as this one. Maybe it's worth putting up in general?

IDK if anything I'd rather SE get their fingers out of their backsides, and did one of them themselves, with a link ingame like their 'tune into our stream and maybe win something' purple server broadcasts (have it send on login with an entry period of like a week or two), and maybe incentivize it with something like 'hey fill out this survey and not only help guide the design of the role for the next expansion, but also you'll get this cool cosmetic for free', make it, idk, a fat cat themed headgear that has the same wobble effect as the slime from the DQ crossover. A Fat Hat if you will, that'll get people to participate for sure

[ty_taurus]

IDK if anything I'd rather SE get their fingers out of their backsides, and did one of them themselves, with a link ingame like their 'tune into our stream and maybe win something' purple server broadcasts (have it send on login with an entry period of like a week or two), and maybe incentivize it with something like 'hey fill out this survey and not only help guide the design of the role for the next expansion, but also you'll get this cool cosmetic for free', make it, idk, a fat cat themed headgear that has the same wobble effect as the slime from the DQ crossover. A Fat Hat if you will, that'll get people to participate for sure

You know, I'll make one for every job and put that up in general and keep it updated with sharing results as well. It honestly is the kind of thing SE probably should have in the game, like a prominent area with new surveys not only for the jobs, but also for content, and offer small rewards like gil, maybe teleport coupons, or maybe you release them with mogtome events and make the reward a chunk of mogtomes to get started, since those are typically released during slower periods after a patch's content has been played through thoroughly. Other live service games do this, and it likely has a lot of value in collecting feedback from multiple angles from many different categories of players.

But you know what? I've got some time and passion for this game. Maybe that info will be seen by a community manager or something if it gains momentum. It's not likely that it will have any impact, but who knows?

[Renathras]

I actually set these up for...

Minor quibble: You have to pick a "more" category. The question doesn't let you submit without it. Even if there's a Job where you don't want any more actions, respondents aren't allowed the opportunity to NOT say they want more. There should be a "no new actions" and a "reduce/consolidate actions" choice. I know a lot of people feel like SCH and especially AST have too many and need a reduction.

I like the basic idea, though. If you could make those changes, I'd post them into my survey OPs too to see if we could get more participants that way.

...

Because Ty proposed it.

I literally took his questions, added words to make them neutral (e.g. instead of "are you dissatisfied? If not why not?" I changed it to "Are you satisfied/dissatisfied?"), and added a fourth question to see if people wanting more damage buttons wanted just a few or wanted a full on DPS rotation.

Man you're the one making all these threads, surveys, whatevers, to try and find 'support for your view'.

Because Ty LITERALLY asked me to: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6215580

It's almost like someone trying to support your argument proposed something thinking I wouldn't do it, then when I did it, collectively there's now a realization it could provide actual hard data suggesting your collective position isn't as unassailable as you guys always insist that it is; and in an effort to "get out in front of this", you're all attacking the questions, survey, and methodology before the results have even come in because you're afraid it won't support your position as absolute.

The thing is, NO position is absolute. It was just lying to yourselves for you guys to think so all this time.

Many times I've been asked to provide data to support my position - something never asked of anyone on the side opposed to me - and many times I've provided it, only for it to be ignored or "That doesn't count!"-ed. I said to Ty that would probably happen this time as well - lo and behold, it's happening...like I'm some kind of prophet here or somethin' - but I said:

Though, you know what?

I'm gonna do it anyway. Because now I'm curious...

"What're you doing?!"
"What am I doing??"
"Thwartin' my plans?!"
"Thwarting your plans??"
"ARE you?!?"
"..... You know what? YES!"

[Vegeta Trunks thwarting my plans?]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fS80eaPKXs

All those worries and all that potential fracturing of false appeal to your position just being default and accepted aside, I don't really care about that stuff.

What I care about is, what does the community collectively actually feel and want. Because they're as much players as you are, as am I.

.

If you have a problem with the questions - complain to Ty. He's the one that proposed them.

But it is interesting to me how quickly all of you are to attack an actual attempt to see what the community really thinks. Almost as if you know, as I have long thought as well, that your position is not a commanding majority of the playerbase as a whole. A point I've been shot down on every time I suggested it, but which seems to match reality. Or, perhaps it's merely something so base as fearing I might be right about something and will gloat about it or some such.

For my part, I just want to know the truth. What does the data actually show.

.

But hey, if YOU think you can do it better, by all means - post your survey. Then we can compare notes. Just remember to add in a question on the end: "On a scale of 1-10, how much would you like the Healer Job you play to remain as it is (with expansions adding the typical 1-2 new abilities/upgrades to existing abilities)?" and "On a scale of 1-10, would you be willing to accept the game changing 1 Healer to be very damage rotation complex, 2 Healers to be moderately complex, and leave 1 Healer as it is today for players that enjoy the current playstyle?"

Then we can compare notes and see what the people seem to be saying.

The reality is, the community's position on the whole is nuanced.

[ForsakenRoe]

Because Ty LITERALLY asked me to: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6215580

It's almost like someone trying to support your argument proposed something thinking I wouldn't do it, then when I did it, collectively there's now a realization it could provide actual hard data suggesting your collective position isn't as unassailable as you guys always insist that it is; and in an effort to "get out in front of this", you're all attacking the questions, survey, and methodology before the results have even come in because you're afraid it won't support your position as absolute.

The thing is, NO position is absolute. It was just lying to yourselves for you guys to think so all this time.

Whole load of ranting again for a situation you don't know anything about. For the record, the reason I didn't know this was Ty's brainchild is because I've had some sort of cold or flu or some bloody thing for the past few days and I did not see that post. Or I did and it didn't sink into my fever-addled brain at the time, whichever. Feel free to instantly go on the attack about how 'the data will prove you right' or whatever though. But yeh, you can absolutely attack the methodology or question format before the data comes in. In fact, that's the time you should criticize the methodology. Because if you don't, and the data comes in and shows a position that doesn't align with what I've been saying, you'll just dismiss my criticism of the methodology as 'oh you're just being picky cos the data proves you wrong'.

If you have a problem with the questions - complain to Ty. He's the one that proposed them.

If it were up to me, I'd have preferred Ty to run the whole thing, since it was apparently his idea, and his forms are a lot better formatted. And even in that post you linked to, the questions are, yeh, they have bias, but I don't see "are you dissatisfied? If not why not?", I see the opposite, 'Are you satisfied with healers currently? If not, why not?', which, yes, the 'request for more detail' is dependent on the one answering being dissatisfied, and being satisfied is reduced to a 'yeh I like it' with no room for extra explanation. That could stand to be better, sure. But you're 'quoting' a question and getting it completely backwards. How's anyone meant to trust your accuracy on tabulating the data, or running a survey to collect it even, when you can't even quote a quote correctly? And when the misquote has such obvious bias contained in it (painting Ty as trying to create negativity bias in the way HE worded things), how's anyone meant to NOT assume you're going to attempt the same with your 'findings', to paint them as being more 'sunshine and rainbows healers are fine atm guys' than the data actually shows? If the data actually shows that, fine, but with the way you've acted both regarding this and previous behavior, everyone's probably just gonna assume you're trying to 'skew the numbers, classic Ren move' and refuse to believe you anyway.

But if me and him (and/or several other forum regulars here) had worked together to create those forms, him making them and me proofreading the questions to ensure they're not biased, no doubt we'd get told that the questions ARE biased and we just can't see it because we're on the side of 'healers deserve to have actual gameplay'.