Healer Survey:

[Renathras]

I don't want the results to be tainted or self-selected. They're going to be raw rather than a controlled sample, but I think that's the best that can be done.

Ty issued a challenge...and for all the faults some here may have with me, backing down when asked to gather data to see what people ACTUALLY believe isn't one of my faults. The call for data and a survey has gone out. Let us have it!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...healer_survey/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...healer_survey/

Posted one in each place, and engaging with the replies to see if I'm understanding them correctly. And by posting it in both the more theorycrafty discussion subreddit and the main one which tends more towards fluffy stuff, we can even see if there are distinctions between them both.

Let us see what the masses TRULY believe.

[ty_taurus]

According to Survey Monkey, if you get about 100 responses per million people in a given population, you'll get answers that are within a 10% margin of error and around 1100 people per million to get answers within a 3% margin of error.

Ideally, you'd want a pool of totally random players, while Reddit is also going to skew toward people who have something to say rather than those who have nothing to say, and having something to say usually skews toward negative. So your sample size isn't going to be as "clean" as it should be for total accuracy. Unfortunately there's nothing you can really do about that. Live Service games will usually offer regular surveys that offer in-game rewards for completing them sometimes as frequently as monthly. Genshin, for example, typically has a survey at the end of every 6 week period if not more, which is their patch cycle, and they offer the equivalent of gil in a large sum for taking the survey.

It's probably something FFXIV should do to be fair, not just on job design, but also content and events. The forums are quite limited in the information they can offer. They seem to collection information somehow, but who knows exactly how they go about doing that.

Something you've brought up before which is true is that there are many more players who have little issues with healers, or any job really, out playing the game, and getting their input is something that would be difficult to collect since they are part of the largest group of players that are basically "go-with-the-flow" type players who tend to be fairly content with most things as long as they don't find changes to be a chore or frustrating to deal with.

[Renathras]

...

I agree.

Not being a SE Dev/person, I can't do what would be needed to get a really good sample. What data we get here will skew towards the negative side. This means what data we collect here should be seen to be "a bit more negative than the playerbase as a whole".

But, I still think this could be an interesting exercise.

As I said in my edit in that other thread, the biggest constant right now seems to be people complaining about encounter design not using healing tools/kits enough. A good number don't mind more DPS buttons but a decent percentage do, VERY few would like full on DPS rotations on par with a DPS Job (some few have said they'd actually like that, but most would not), with many saying they don't really want a rotation at all (even the ones that want a few more DPS buttons). Some think Healers are fine right now, or SOME are fine (generally WHM and SGE are the ones people like as they are right now and many who parsed them out like that don't like AST and are kind of meh on SGE; some are the reverse of this, however), but that the encounter design isn't really suited to their kits. Many seem to want to use more GCD heals, and a good number are complaining about healing plans being the way to play and having too many and too powerful oGCD heals.

And, as noted, this is a group that leans towards the "negative" side on their views towards healers...and I'd point out here they sound (on the whole) a bit more like me than like you guys. But, the sample is still too small, so more responses are needed - which seem to be coming in, thankfully - so it should be interesting to tally the results once either the results stop coming in or we have 100+ to work with. It's WAY too early to make any concrete claims, so I won't.

But I will say this: It seems my views are not so alone and isolated as you suggested.

.

EDIT: Tabulating the data, on the other hand, is going to be a royal pain in the... at the very least, I'm already trying to figure out how to rank the answers to question 1. For example, if someone says "Satisfied with WHM but don't like the rest", "Love (satisfied) WHM and SGE", or "Dissatisfied because of encounter design", those distinctions need to be made as not "Satisfied with all of them", but also not "Dissatisfied with all of them". I think that shouldn't be too difficult to present the answer to, though, since I can break it down by Job, encounter design, GCD vs oGCD healing.

The DPS questions will need a lot more parsing, but I think that won't be too terrible, either. Thanks to having both question 3 and 4, there's already some nice granularity there. I suppose if ever I do another poll, I'll take a lesson from that and try to include a/b versions of other questions to make it easier to classify the answers.

Anyway, yeah, going to be a pita to sort, but I think it's a worthwhile question(s) to ask.

[Recon1o6]

looking at this survey after 7 hours renathras, so far most of them are saying what we have been saying here

-The majority is dissatisfied with healers for one reason or another. The amount of dissatisfaction varies but the lack of dps is a core issue for many
-We want more dps actions AND more healing to do at all levels
-We don't want a full dps rotation. Something more like a tank's rotation in size.
-Even those that are fine with the current status wouldnt be averse to more damage buttons
-Encounter design exacerbates the mountain of healer problems.

[IDontPetLalas]

Tabulating the data is going to be a pita as you say due to the nature of the survey design - and before you take that as a 'personal attack' , full disclaimer - no- I'm not an expert in market research but I do work with them and get feedback on survey design and campaigns .

It is possible to get metrics without the "a/b" (as you refer to it) style questions, however open-ended question analysis is more difficult, there are tools you can use (no idea if any of them are free) without doing that manually. if you can avoid bias (again, not an attack - coming up with questions isn't always easy) it's easier to analyze close-ended questions.

[Renathras]

...

Yes, but a lot are saying what I'm saying:

- They're satisfied with Healers THEMSELVES (or some of the Jobs, if not all), the issue is encounter design.
- Many are neutral and some don't want more DPS actions, but want more of a focus on healing, including GCD healing, and many want fewer and less powerful oGCD heals so more GCDs are spent healing, and less focus on healing plans.
- Most don't want a DPS rotation, or a "rotation" (even Tank rotation) at all, and seem to want situational use DPS buttons.
- Most who want some change want it to be more healing focused, not damage focused, and many who wouldn't mind more damage buttons are okay with not having more if the healing is addressed.
- Encounter design, encounter design, encounter design - this seems to actually be the biggest complaint.

This has been what I've been saying. If you've been saying the same thing, then it would be strange for so many people to attack my position if it's also their own...

Further, this would also strongly support my "4 Healers" position, as there are quite a few people that don't want more damage buttons, and a goodly number seem to think WHM and SGE are fine as they are and only SCH and AST (and encounter design) needs changing. This has literally been my position here for months...

For a while, the prevailing view here seems to be "the options are more healing or changing encounters or more DPS; they tried more healing in Abyssos and everyone hated it, there's no way to change encounters (insert argument about how all content must backdate across all encounters in the game for unspecified reason), so the solution must be more DPS buttons."

I've made different proposals, including less powerful/frequent oGCDs to require GCDs be used for healing more often, changing some (but not all) of the Jobs to give them more either buffing/support options or a few more damage options (SCH being the one I've leaned most heavily to giving more DPS buttons to), and changing boss encounters themselves to be more like Abyssos, but where it's on the Healers only, not where the Healers are reliant on the DPSers for mitigation checks.

Note that THESE seem to be the most common themes emerging, not "we can't change encounters and everyone hates more healing, so more damage". That seems to not be the most common position expressed at all. Many seem to actually LIKE the more healing in Abyssos and using GCDs for healing, and even dislike healing plan setups, something the posters here seem to think is the best part of the role.

.

While the appraisal of the overall situation you guys seem to have generally the right of - AS HAVE I; to the point it's weird to me I get so much flack here since we apparently agree on so much - the solutions being proposed and the feeling for more damage vs more healing you guys seem not to be in tune with a lot of the respondents...

...

Yeah, the issue is I want to avoid my own bias tainting the results as well. Think ill of me if you will, I consider things like this sacred and want the best results possible, and I'm aware of the dangers to pollsters in "tilting" results to their desired outcomes. This is why I altered Ty's initial questions (and used his as the basis instead of creating my own) so that the results would be as hopefully neutral as possible.

For example, if someone says they're satisfied with WHM but not the other three and not with encounter design, this sounds similar to my own position, but I don't want to automatically say it is if there's more nuance there. I want to make sure I'm accurately representing THEIR position, since I think that's the best way overall to get a good picture of reality, which is what I want: To see what people really think.

I fully know my position is alone, though I don't know passed that if it's a majority or minority, but I want an accurate accounting, and the caveat that the results will likely be tilted SLIGHTLY to the negative in any case, as Ty pointed out, so whatever the end result is, a slightly more positive of "that" will be the true feeling of the community as a whole.

[Semirhage]

I don't *care* if a majority of people disagree with me. A huge number of people are incorrect about a lot of things.

What baffles *me* is, the moment anyone suggests adding a skill ceiling to WHM, that's the line in the sand that CANNOT be crossed. Even if you specify a thought experiment hypothetical where its impact on the existence of current gameplay is minimal; inefficient heal-spamming and Glarebotting is still a suboptimal option. Nope. Will not countenance it. Why can't we change the other three healers instead?!

Because this is the clear line in the sand, it leads me to suspect things about the people who absolutely insist that it MUST remain as-is, with very few tweaks. It tells me that the goal isn't "must have one unchanged". It points more to the idea that it must not have skill expression.

11111111111. Is. Boring.

[Silver-Strider]

- They're satisfied with Healers THEMSELVES (or some of the Jobs, if not all), the issue is encounter design.
- Many are neutral and some don't want more DPS actions, but want more of a focus on healing, including GCD healing, and many want fewer and less powerful oGCD heals so more GCDs are spent healing, and less focus on healing plans.
- Most don't want a DPS rotation, or a "rotation" (even Tank rotation) at all, and seem to want situational use DPS buttons.

- Even the ones that state they're satisfied with some of the jobs still say that the jobs get boring once a fight is learned.
- Many more say that adding some more DPS options doesn't hurt either.
- I have seen 9 people in both threads say this total. In comparison, about 18 say a Tank rotation would suffice with the rest being indifferent to it. I don't see how that's "most"

Also, it's not just the encounter design they argue about.
There's a few that argue that job design is also lacking.

"WHM, SGE, and SCH theoretically have a resource based gameplay loop, but compared to say RDM it's child's play. Give us more ways to build and spend our classes unique resources. That's what makes each class feel different: WHM, SGE, and AST play the exact same when you're down synced to before cards/lillies/whatever the SGE orbs are called."
" I'm actually a bit surprised it doesn't have even a bit more complex DPS mechanics. I was expecting it to be like a Discipline Priest in WoW which has to do damage to heal and spread shields. Now it's just a WHM with Shields.." In regard to SGE.
'I'd love for these jobs to have something, ANYTHING beyond their single stupid *censored* nuke (which was also homogenized, AST was the one with the fast main nuke, why give that to everyone including megablocks mage for no *censored* reason)."

Among others.

[ty_taurus]

- They're satisfied with Healers THEMSELVES (or some of the Jobs, if not all), the issue is encounter design.
- Many are neutral and some don't want more DPS actions, but want more of a focus on healing, including GCD healing, and many want fewer and less powerful oGCD heals so more GCDs are spent healing, and less focus on healing plans.
- Most don't want a DPS rotation, or a "rotation" (even Tank rotation) at all, and seem to want situational use DPS buttons.
- Most who want some change want it to be more healing focused, not damage focused, and many who wouldn't mind more damage buttons are okay with not having more if the healing is addressed.
- Encounter design, encounter design, encounter design - this seems to actually be the biggest complaint.

I'm very curious as to how you came to that conclusion seeing that multiple responses specifically mention using tank rotations as a basis rather than DPS rotations as posed in the question. No one is asking for DPS rotations on the same level as the DPS role, and naturally, no one thinks its necessary or realistic, though several would still be completely fine with that, or they're interpreting the question as less literal than as its presented.

There seem to be a fair amount of people who are dissatisfied and a similar amount of people who are satisfied, but what's important to note is the group that is satisfied is almost unanimously open to getting more DPS actions if not flat out encouraging it. Sure there is specification that it depends on what DPS actions you add or how many, but isn't that exactly what we've been saying here? Create more variety for healing downtime for all healers with some being more complex and others being more forgiving, so long as all of them have more to do when no healing is needed and that all of them are given more skill expression?

The overwhelming verdict so far is that most either want more DPS, are open to it, or specify that as long as it doesn't make the jobs feel bloated. One person mentioned said it's fine but doesn't believe it will fix the issue with healers. One person is concerned about what that means for harder content, and there's another person who seems to share a lot in common with you. They main WHM, but also play SCH and SGE, and think WHM shouldn't change but the other 3 could, and even their writing style is strikingly similar to your own. They mentioned that healers would be worse if they changed from where they are now. But those two examples seem to be it as far as opposition to DPS is concerned, at least on the discussion thread. There are even a few who pointed out wanting to see more actions on WHM specifically.

[IDontPetLalas]

I'm very curious as to how you came to that conclusion seeing that multiple responses specifically mention using tank rotations as a basis rather than DPS rotations as posed in the question. No one is asking for DPS rotations on the same level as the DPS role, and naturally, no one thinks its necessary or realistic, though several would still be completely fine with that, or they're interpreting the question as less literal than as its presented.

There seem to be a fair amount of people who are dissatisfied and a similar amount of people who are satisfied, but what's important to note is the group that is satisfied is almost unanimously open to getting more DPS actions if not flat out encouraging it. Sure there is specification that it depends on what DPS actions you add or how many, but isn't that exactly what we've been saying here? Create more variety for healing downtime for all healers with some being more complex and others being more forgiving, so long as all of them have more to do when no healing is needed and that all of them are given more skill expression?

The overwhelming verdict so far is that most either want more DPS, are open to it, or specify that as long as it doesn't make the jobs feel bloated. One person mentioned said it's fine but doesn't believe it will fix the issue with healers. One person is concerned about what that means for harder content, and there's another person who seems to share a lot in common with you. They main WHM, but also play SCH and SGE, and think WHM shouldn't change but the other 3 could, and even their writing style is strikingly similar to your own. They mentioned that healers would be worse if they changed from where they are now. But those two examples seem to be it as far as opposition to DPS is concerned, at least on the discussion thread. There are even a few who pointed out wanting to see more actions on WHM specifically.

Agreed with all of the above. I can quote some outliers, such as the odd person who said that he/she like to go on their healer alt when they felt like being lazy, just as I can also quote the other extreme who are open to the complex DPS rotation option. My general impression is that most however fall towards that "sure, add in more DPS options but if I want complex DPS exactly as DPS , which makes me need to focus on it as a DPS, I'll play a DPS".

Which is why I would be curious to segment the respondents (all optional) but hopefully some people would answer them all :
- are you a healer main?
- if so how long have you been healing?
- what content do you heal?
- which healers have you leveled?
- what levels are your healers?