Will Beastmaster appear in any Endwalker content patches?

[aveyond-dreams]

So here's your chance to prove your point. If the people who were once pining for BLU to even be represented are now so thoroughly disgusted by how the Limited Job version turned out that they would prefer to have never seen it at all, then please, do show me any material on what would hypothetically have replaced it if not for Limited Jobs.

Anything.

No meme spells. A set of spells with a rotation for aoe and single target. I don't care if the ability to tank or heal as blue is lost or maintained, those role spells can stay as flavor or something. The job is now able to level with and do current content with others after learning the core spells of its rotation and is no longer limited to ancient fights everyone has already done a hundred times.

The end.

Designing the intricacies of job abilities and potencies is not my job, it's the dev team's. I absolutely would not have wanted Blue Mage added to this game at all if it meant that it could *only* be a limited job. I would have preferred literally anything else. It's their job to get creative and fix this situation, not mine.

[Archwizard]

Designing the intricacies of job abilities and potencies is not my job, it's the dev team's. I absolutely would not have wanted Blue Mage added to this game at all if it meant that it could *only* be a limited job. I would have preferred literally anything else. It's their job to get creative and fix this situation, not mine.

See that's the problem, right.

To me, there's no difference between what you're suggesting, and someone wearing a Blue Mage glamour over any other caster.

It's like this right:
Black Mage is defined by being the Wizard Classic, the full offensive damage caster. You cannot have a Black Mage who, say, heals people or summons pets. It could have damage buffs, but that isn't the bare minimum.
Red Mage is defined by combining Black Magic, White Magic and swordplay. You cannot have a Red Mage without all three of those elements. It could have Dualcast, but a Red Mage isn't defined by having it.
Summoner is defined by the ability to summon eidolons from across the series like Bahamut and Phoenix to fight for them. That's a thing about its playstyle that is fundamentally unique to it. It just got off a multi-expansion train of pointing out that the Egis were glorified DoTs (terrible ones, I might add) and lacking the actual connection to summoning meant it was a Summoner in name only. EW is where we're hearing in droves "This is what SMN always should have been."

Time Mage? Well it's the master of space and time. It doesn't really matter exactly what it does, as long as it controls time in some capacity, like through DoTs and buffs.
Geomancer? It just needs elemental effects and some connection to the battlefield, even if that's as simple as putting down GTAoEs like Salted Earth, or standing in buff fields like Ley Lines.

What is the fundamental "Blue Mage"? The user of enemy skills -- but if it learns them from leveling instead of from enemies, and we compress them down to Current Content Balanced level so the effects are neutered or entirely different, then all of those would be enemy skills in name only. To repeat an example, White Wind just being a reskin on Medica and so on. You could get the same effect by just taking Black Mage, reskinning all of its skills for flavor, and swapping a couple here and there for utility -- but would you call that a Blue Mage?
So how would they define Blue Mage in spite of that?

I'm not talking about potencies or what buffs it juggles, I'm asking what about any hypothetical future job would make you say "this is quintessentially a Blue Mage -- not a Black, Red, Green, White or Time Mage. This is what Blue Mage should have been."

Because without that clear idea, without actionable feedback, we're just going to be caught in an infinite loop of "It wasn't what I wanted, start over." "Okay, well what did you want?" "That's your job to figure out."

Also, again, many of us are not asking for the side content that is current blu to be removed or stopped receiving updates. We just want to have blue mage the job available to play the game with as you can any of the other combat jobs.

You can't do that with the current iteration though without scrapping most of the existing spells. Anything tied to a CC effect on an enemy (which is most of those filler spells), anything with Instant Death potential, anything that significantly hampers you or allies in some way, anything more powerful than what a dedicated tank or healer has access to (ie Diamondback or White Wind).

By the end of it all you'd be left with... what, 3-4 redundant filler spells, Pom Cure, Angel Whisper, Song of Torment and a handful of Primal cooldowns?

And having reviewed your link, I would ask you to put such concepts under the same microscope I invited aveyond to consider: would being given a job like that make you say "this is quintessentially a Blue Mage", regardless of what name was slapped on it?
Or is the only important thing here just seeing a job named Blue Mage with the same cap as everyone else?

[Auryan]

You can't do that with the current iteration though without scrapping most of the existing spells. Anything tied to a CC effect on an enemy (which is most of those filler spells), anything with Instant Death potential, anything that significantly hampers you or allies in some way, anything more powerful than what a dedicated tank or healer has access to (ie Diamondback or White Wind).

By the end of it all you'd be left with... what, 3-4 redundant filler spells, Pom Cure, Angel Whisper, Song of Torment and a handful of Primal cooldowns?

Exactly. Limited BLU is interesting because of it's customization, wide array of weird and gimmicky spells and lack of overall balance. To add BLU to the standard heap, you'll have to gut everything that is remotely interesting. Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else. I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

[Archwizard]

I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

Honestly it wouldn't shock me if they capped such a version for the achievement and then never touched it again, retreating back to old favorites.

[aveyond-dreams]

Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else. I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

If Blue Mage were a normal job with a standard rotation during Shadowbringers:

I would have dedicated the time to levelling it through roulettes/Bozja by playing with other people in actual content as opposed to just letting a max level player kill things for me in the overworld.

I would have specifically grinded out the remaining caster sets from the NieR raids in order to create Velvet Room glams for the class based off the Persona series.

I would have sunk the time into getting its relic weapon from Bozja like I did for a number of my jobs.

I would have dropped the $$$ to potentially boost the class on my alts depending how well the job fits each character.

I would have likely cycled through it and my other casters while running dungeons/raids that specifically drop caster gear in order to grind for glamours.

I likely would have done some new game plus for Blue Mage especially the 5.1-.3 patches.

I also probably would have done a few extremes as it if I liked the weapon from the fight for the job.

Instead this expansion I used Blue Mage in: literally nothing, because I got all my moogle event rewards by doing regular activities with other jobs in previous expansions or passively while doing content with the other full jobs. The game does not stop once you hit max level on a job, for a lot of players that's when the real fun and challenges begin. I do not care where or how the normal group mode spells are learned-whether through a job story quest battle or overworld mobs that are within access to all. The job as it is now is full of an absurd number of roadblocks on a path that at best only leads to rewards a lot of people already own, with its unique rewards being lackluster and underwhelming in comparison.

Honestly it wouldn't shock me if they capped such a version for the achievement and then never touched it again, retreating back to old favorites.

The only reason I'm bothering to share my thoughts on the job at all is because I want to be able to play it, along with the other jobs I levelled and played regularly during this expansion. I just don't want to be limited to a carnival with 1000 copies of the same spell or having to wait 10 hours in party finder to get the spells locked behind dungeons, and for some reason, ex fights. I still vividly remember seeing people post about how they had cleared the Shiva ex fight over 100 times and still never saw the spell drop. And now that they nerfed the spell rng, no one does these fights as blue mage anymore beyond its 2 week window of activity when each patch is released.

What would limited beast master even get as a "unique" reward? The supposed teddy bear fashion item Yoship teased in a live letter months ago? Allied seals? A new umbrella? It makes the tentacle monster mob mount model that's been in the game since 2010 look just as good as the Ultimate Kamuy by comparison. Please spend my sub and mog station money on literally anything else at that point.

[Auryan]

If Blue Mage were a normal job with a standard rotation during Shadowbringers:

I would have dedicated the time to levelling it through roulettes/Bozja by playing with other people in actual content as opposed to just letting a max level player kill things for me in the overworld.

I would have specifically grinded out the remaining caster sets from the NieR raids in order to create Velvet Room glams for the class based off the Persona series.

I would have sunk the time into getting its relic weapon from Bozja like I did for a number of my jobs.

I would have dropped the $$$ to potentially boost the class on my alts depending how well the job fits each character.

I would have likely cycled through it and my other casters while running dungeons/raids that specifically drop caster gear in order to grind for glamours.

I likely would have done some new game plus for Blue Mage especially the 5.1-.3 patches.

I also probably would have done a few extremes as it if I liked the weapon from the fight for the job.

Instead this expansion I used Blue Mage in: literally nothing, because I got all my moogle event rewards by doing regular activities with other jobs in previous expansions or passively while doing content with the other full jobs. The game does not stop once you hit max level on a job, for a lot of players that's when the real fun and challenges begin. I do not care where or how the normal group mode spells are learned-whether through a job story quest battle or overworld mobs that are within access to all. The job as it is now is full of an absurd number of roadblocks on a path that at best only leads to rewards a lot of people already own, with its unique rewards being lackluster and underwhelming in comparison.

Good...for you? It's nice that you did all of that with every single job. I can't relate. From my personal experience: I leveled all of the jobs to max, barely touched most of them afterwards. Can count on one hand the number of times I switched to any of the tanks and most of the melees. On the other hand, I made use of BLU. Got the job to max, got all the spells, enjoyed the questline, finished the Gogo fight. I had a good time. Which is more than can I see about the other jobs/roles I mentioned earlier.

And that's just a matter of content and playstyle we enjoy. Difference between us though is that I am aware and have accepted that BLU is side content, a fact I know that bothers a lot of people here. You just wanting another caster to grind with doesn't make turning a piece of side content into something it isn't any more reasonable. If you want a generic, nameless caster for that, maybe wait for 7.0 or something. It doesn't even sound like you specifically want a caster anyway, any new job would do.

[Shurrikhan]

Exactly. Limited BLU is interesting because of it's customization, wide array of weird and gimmicky spells and lack of overall balance. To add BLU to the standard heap, you'll have to gut everything that is remotely interesting. Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else.

Umm, no. I can't speak for Jon and Aveyond -- as I suspect our views differ significantly, such as in that I do not want to see a BLU as merely another Magical Ranged DPS -- but for me it is certainly not merely about getting the job to max level.

It is instead about making its uniqueness actually carry over to its combat and playflow, rather than being mostly constrained to its acquisition gimmicks or the 'glory' of overpowered but nonetheless basic heal casts. Ultimately, if the meme spells were replaced with actual synergies (an no, dmg mod stacking is not sufficient) and BLU actually therefore capable of engaging playflows, yeah, I'd like to actually be able to still play that then-engaging job in current and even matchmade content, but that's secondary to it first being a well-built job, none of which need sacrifice its oversized kit or its systems of acquisition.

I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

I wouldn't enjoy a "basic-beach" BLU, but, AGAIN, unique systems of acquisition and deck-building do NOT demand that a job be locked out of current content, and allowing BLU to do current content does NOT demand it be released only in "basic-beach" form. The requirement is the (quite considerable) effort of creating a job with an several-fold ability count -- no more, no less. Such in turn, though, requires that BLU is actually treated as a job, and not merely a guise for side-content or a revitalizing system for doing past expansion's dungeons and trials.

You can have the oversized toolkit and still have interesting spells; it's only from having both, together, that you have any interesting deck-building. That deliberate deck-building, not merely the "gotta catch acquire them all (but really only the top 28 spells you'd every really use anyways)", imo, should have been the point of the job. But alas, it's not a job in which additional time has been spent to un-limit it relative to most; it is instead, quite differently, a gimmick first and a job only as a means of that gimmick's application.

[jon041065]

Exactly. Limited BLU is interesting because of it's customization, wide array of weird and gimmicky spells and lack of overall balance. To add BLU to the standard heap, you'll have to gut everything that is remotely interesting. Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else. I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

When did I ever say to just gut what we have currently as blue mage and let it be in the full game? I've said that I'd pick a full job blue mage if I was forced to pick between limited blu and full blu but have very much been pushing for both sides to be happy in the end. The only group I don't care if they "lose" are those that seem to only care if the other side is left unhappy in the end.

I've thrown out my own ideas, linked to ideas from others, and made a thread shortly after the reveal of limited blu for others to keep posting concepts or the basis of what they would like to see.

Most of us are not asking for limited blue mage to be removed or to not continue going forward but that a version of the job is made available to play in the full game in a future expac. That's fine if that isn't what you want just as I don't want a dual pistol job and some other desired jobs I've seen proposed on the forums. What I'm not going to do is say that those players shouldn't see the jobs they want to be play be added. I'll stick to requesting what I want to see. So I don't understand saying that a full blue mage shouldn't be added because you wouldn't find it interesting IF we are able to have a full blue mage in addition to what blue mage is already in the game. Why does it matter to you if what you like will still be there but other players also get what they would like?

Umm, no. I can't speak for Jon and Aveyond -- as I suspect our views differ significantly, such as in that I do not want to see a BLU as merely another Magical Ranged DPS -- but for me it is certainly not merely about getting the job to max level.

I wanted a blue mage tank ideally. Or a melee counterpart to red mage but melee blu is unlikely as there doesn't exist a framework currently like there is for tank, healer, and caster dps blu. I put out my idea for how I would like to see a dps version of blue mage play is my post I linked in an earlier post. Just change carry over the idea to ranged spells instead of melee ones.

[Shurrikhan]

I wanted a blue mage tank ideally. Or a melee counterpart to red mage but melee blu is unlikely as there doesn't exist a framework currently like there is for tank, healer, and caster dps blu. I put out my idea for how I would like to see a dps version of blue mage play is my post I linked in an earlier post. Just change carry over the idea to ranged spells instead of melee ones.

I absolutely do not want a single-role BLU (it's already far too single-role for me), but if it absolutely had to be one, I'd have most liked it to be a tank (healer least, and psuedo-Melee equally as fitting to me as Ranged) -- just not as another example of the homogeneity we currently see across that role.

[Auryan]

I wouldn't enjoy a "basic-beach" BLU, but, AGAIN, unique systems of acquisition and deck-building do NOT demand that a job be locked out of current content, and allowing BLU to do current content does NOT demand it be released only in "basic-beach" form. The requirement is the (quite considerable) effort of creating a job with an several-fold ability count -- no more, no less. Such in turn, though, requires that BLU is actually treated as a job, and not merely a guise for side-content or a revitalizing system for doing past expansion's dungeons and trials.

You can have the oversized toolkit and still have interesting spells; it's only from having both, together, that you have any interesting deck-building. That deliberate deck-building, not merely the "gotta catch acquire them all (but really only the top 28 spells you'd every really use anyways)", imo, should have been the point of the job. But alas, it's not a job in which additional time has been spent to un-limit it relative to most; it is instead, quite differently, a gimmick first and a job only as a means of that gimmick's application.

The fact that it's a job-as-side-content is why I enjoy it. I don't care for a large number of the jobs, so it being a piece of content I can do between the daily routine is much appreciated in my book. I agree with the fact that the entire package is what makes BLU interesting. Remove or alter any part will ruin the whole experience. And I know what would happen if they try to balance it. It would lose all of its customization and flavor, as well as a severely diminished emphasis on the learning aspect. Let's not kid ourselves. You can convince yourself that you can have it all, but I thought that was ridiculous in 2019 and I still do now.