Will Beastmaster appear in any Endwalker content patches?

[jon041065]

Issues with your suggestion:
1. Restricting a standard job behind side content is dumb and they would and should never do that. Making the job entirely side content is something else.
2. The issue is not about removing access to MC (although gutting this version would inadvertently lead to that), but more that this version of BLU is only fun when it can customize your build using bizarre and broken spells. All of which would not be possible if it were to do max level content. Why would anyone play BLU if it can't do Ram's Voice + Ultravibration or blowing themselves up at any given moment? I guess the people that would put more emphasis on the job label than anything else.
3. No one cares if you partake in a piece of content or not. Play it or not, whatever floats your boat. You don't see me typing that they should abandon Ultimate for more exploratory content. Even though I don't do or care for Ultimate and make literally 0 use of the content (along with the vast majority of the player base).

Would you be fine with a full version of blue mage if what blue mage is currently was left as is and continued to be updated as planned?

[Auryan]

Would you be fine with a full version of blue mage if what blue mage is currently was left as is and continued to be updated as planned?

Sure. But that's unrealistic in a having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too kind of way. That it's possible to go that route, sure, but is it practical and worth investing more resources into what is clearly meant as strictly side content? No, not really.
If they're going to even attempt to, why not simply create a BLU-like mage that is similar, but doesn't have all the hang-ups? A Catmancer that has cats use a select few curated, synergistic monster abilities by feeding them treats. It's BLU/BST-esque, doesn't have much or any attention on learning these abilities besides on level and is distinct enough from the other mages.

Kind of what Archwizard mentioned a while back.

EDIT: changed for more clarity

[aveyond-dreams]

Sure. But that's unrealistic in a having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too kind of way. That it's possible to go that route, sure, but is it practical and worth investing more resources into what is clearly meant as strictly side content? No, not really.
If they're going to even attempt to, why not simply create a BLU-like mage that is similar, but doesn't have all the hang-ups? A Catmancer that has cats use a select few curated, synergistic monster abilities by feeding them treats. It's BLU/BST-esque, doesn't have much or any attention on learning these abilities besides on level and is distinct enough from the other mages.

Kind of what Archwizard mentioned a while back.

EDIT: changed for more clarity

Maybe because Catmancer is a job that is very difficult to take seriously while Blue Mage has the weight of its past iterations behind it. If anything that should have been a limited job instead of an FF classic.

So yeah, it would be worth it to make a set of rotation spells for a non-limited mode for Blue Mage. They seem to spare no expense at making spells, so why not make another 20 or so for our rotation. At this point it's not that big of an ask.

[jon041065]

Sure. But that's unrealistic in a having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too kind of way. That it's possible to go that route, sure, but is it practical and worth investing more resources into what is clearly meant as strictly side content? No, not really.
If they're going to even attempt to, why not simply create a BLU-like mage that is similar, but doesn't have all the hang-ups? A Catmancer that has cats use a select few curated, synergistic monster abilities by feeding them treats. It's BLU/BST-esque, doesn't have much or any attention on learning these abilities besides on level and is distinct enough from the other mages.

Kind of what Archwizard mentioned a while back.

EDIT: changed for more clarity

I wouldn't look at it as a "having your cake and eating it too" situation but it is something that is not likely to happen I'll give you that. I would look at it as the developers seeing what types of side content the players do want to keep seeing. We have deep dungeon already. We've seen Diadem added to the game and then reworked twiced. The limited job system has been well received by some and not so well by others. Obviously I fall into the later category but would like to achieve the mount but not going after it because I don't want to be counted as a player that seemingly approves of the current system. I could very well be wrong but I would assume that there are resources meant for the development of new jobs and balancing and then resources meant for new side content. If our sides could come to an agreement then we would be more likely to see more content in the vein of the masked carnivale instead of the devs potentially viewing it as a risk. We can both agree that there has been a lot of noise over the years about the limited job system. If most of that was then channeled into one clear message about what would we like to see in the future then we would likely see that feedback be acted upon instead of the split feedback we are providing currently. Maybe that would mean that side content is added first and then through that us players unlock the full version of the job. Ideally, most of both camps would be satisfied with that situation.

[Shurrikhan]

Sure. But that's unrealistic in a having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too kind of way. That it's possible to go that route, sure, but is it practical and worth investing more resources into what is clearly meant as strictly side content? No, not really.
If they're going to even attempt to, why not simply create a BLU-like mage that is similar, but doesn't have all the hang-ups? A Catmancer that has cats use a select few curated, synergistic monster abilities by feeding them treats. It's BLU/BST-esque, doesn't have much or any attention on learning these abilities besides on level and is distinct enough from the other mages.

No, it is not. There is no opportunity, laudable or otherwise, that would need be consumed.

It's a matter of something which works in both arenas A and B. And that's a matter of compromise; if the capacity for A is "compromised", it straight-up no longer works for A, and vice versa. Such is instead a matter of effort.

The question is simply whether BLU is worth that effort, to actually have meaningful choice in its kit (rather than on up to perhaps 5 spells out of the whole thing), to actually have an engaging playflow (rather than, at most, the glee of a damage-mod-stacked burst per 90s or overpowered basic heals), to actually be designed for the fun of its own playflow and decision-making, rather than only for its grind of acquisition.

And, no, a "Catmancer" would not be a suitable replacement for BLU. Nor does BLU need replacing. BLU deserves fixing and actually fleshing out with some attention to it's own experience, rather than merely that of its attached mini-game.

[Auryan]

No, it is not. There is no opportunity, laudable or otherwise, that would need be consumed.

It's a matter of something which works in both arenas A and B. And that's a matter of compromise; if the capacity for A is "compromised", it straight-up no longer works for A, and vice versa. Such is instead a matter of effort.

The question is simply whether BLU is worth that effort, to actually have meaningful choice in its kit (rather than on up to perhaps 5 spells out of the whole thing), to actually have an engaging playflow (rather than, at most, the glee of a damage-mod-stacked burst per 90s or overpowered basic heals), to actually be designed for the fun of its own playflow and decision-making, rather than only for its grind of acquisition.

And, no, a "Catmancer" would not be a suitable replacement for BLU. Nor does BLU need replacing. BLU deserves fixing and actually fleshing out with some attention to it's own experience, rather than merely that of its attached mini-game.

And I'm saying the effort to arbitrarily make such a change is not worth it. That instead of adding a completely unnecessary and watered down version to a piece of side content, you could add a caster to the slot that would fill the same niche of BLU without having to change anything of said content and its purpose.
I'm trying to meet you halfway here. Catmancer, Animist or w/e that sorta plays in to the fantasy of BLU can be added to the roster of standard jobs and has the added benefit of not being attached to anything (precedence, tradition, gimmick) and be its very own job. It would mirror the relationship between Reaper and traditional DRK that share similar aesthetic, weapon and fighting style, while still being distinct from XIV's version of DRK. Something that has been suggested here before.

It's hard to discuss any of these theoretical "solutions" to this topic when people are not open to compromise on any of their staunch and unreasonable desires. And I reject the entire premise that BLU needs any sort of "fixing" that you're demanding, it's working completely as intended. Your hang-ups and refusal to accept the obvious are not mine or the developers' problem. It is a mini-game and side content, it's best for everyone to just accept it. If you want to make sensible adjustments to the experience, send in constructive feedback. Theorycrafting that subverts the entire concept that (general) you unconvincingly try pass off as easy to implement isn't constructive.

[aveyond-dreams]

And I'm saying the effort to arbitrarily make such a change is not worth it.

And I, and many others, are saying that it is absolutely worth it because we have clearly stated that we want to play as a full version of Blue Mage-not restricted to a minigame and ancient fights.

This kind of "it's not worth it to fix blue mage!" really sounds a lot like the arguments made back in 2019 around male Viera, "who would want to play as a bunny boy?? This race that can't even change its hair without a fantasia is so much cooler!! You need to respect their *vision!*"

Talk about failing to read the room. In any case I absolutely did not respect the *vision* of gender locked races and I still do not agree with the decision to turn a mainline FF job into a minigame.

In any case, players spoke up, the devs realized that yeah, mistakes were made, and then they fixed them. So I'm telling them to please fix Blue Mage already. The class that has appeared in numerous numbered FF titles with cool monster magic. Not the cat mage class.

[Shurrikhan]

That instead of adding a completely unnecessary and watered down version to a piece of side content, you could add a caster to the slot that would fill the same niche of BLU without having to change anything of said content and its purpose.

The current version is the watered down one.

Look at the kit. How much of it substantiates real, remotely competitive choices? What actual contextual nuance do you engage with across various fights, relative to your SAMs, your PLDs, your SMNs, your DRGs, etc.? What is there to make its actual playflow fun outside of the fact that it's capable of broken cheese?

I'm trying to meet you halfway here. Catmancer, Animist or w/e that sorta plays

Again, though, unless the whole purpose is to have a mangled, half-assed kit, as in the current version, what possible reason is there to meet only half-way up from half an earnest effort? Either actually do it, or don't. Don't throw a pittance atop an already paltry gesture of a combat experience.

And I reject the entire premise that BLU needs any sort of "fixing" that you're demanding, it's working completely as intended.

Then its vision is, imo -- and, it would appear, many others' -- shite.

But, I'm sure Mahjong, early Diadem, gender-locked Viera, and the like are/were "working as intended", too. Is this form of "working as intended" supposed to be the barely-touched kind or the eventually changed kind, I wonder?

It is a mini-game and side content, it's best for everyone to just accept it.

I have, and am willing to leave it as such, so long as I don't have to lose yet another favorite job concept to be relegated to a damned mini-game.

Theorycrafting that subverts the entire concept that (general) you unconvincingly try pass off as easy to implement isn't constructive.

No one has called it easy, only worthwhile -- especially if it means getting an actual (not watered-down or relegated-to-a-mini-game) BLU.

[Archwizard]

so long as I don't have to lose yet another favorite job concept to be relegated to a damned mini-game.

That mindset is exactly the issue: you talk about "losing" jobs to becoming Limited Jobs, when the purpose and reality of Limited Jobs is that we're lucky to see those jobs represented at all.

As I said before, the fact that they've tried and failed to implement Chemist as a healer twice in a row now shows that some jobs simply aren't congruous with 14's existing systems. Evidently in the case of BLU, the devs agreed that it simply wouldn't do as a full job, and they created Limited Jobs as a compromise from scrapping one of their more popular asks entirely.
"But XI did it!" XI is a completely different game. What worked in one (like spamming debuffs on a boss, or having 6-8 versions of a buff for each element) isn't necessarily plausible in the other, and no job in 14 has ever been lifted 1:1 from XI.

Which is why I take such issue with the conceit involved in people in this thread complaining that they'd rather BLU hadn't been implemented at all. The ones who try to have their cake and eat it too, claiming to be on the side of BLU fans while also advocating removing the consolation specifically provided for BLU fans. Claiming it's an obstacle to something that was dead in the water well before it existed.
Because yes, the alternative was for BLU fans to simply die begging.

So I will say again, if the devs manage to find a way to implement BST in a manner that satisfies both them and the players without making it a "damned mini-game", fine -- I'm not arguing for them to put "filling the next Limited Job slot" before trying to find a way to make its candidates Full Jobs. The primary reason BST even comes up in these discussions is purely for the beast-taming aspect, which the devs may simply eschew for practical reasons.
Frankly, I wouldn't be too shocked if the next highest candidate on their list was CHM instead now, precisely for the twice failure to make a Mix system before. Maybe some ungodly healer who brews completely overpowered buffs with a chance to blow up in their face and kill them or something.

The umbrage I take is with people coming out of the woodwork to spit venom when the words "Limited Job" even make an appearance on the page, as if a BLU personally pulled the life support on their grandparents.

[aveyond-dreams]

That mindset is exactly the issue: you talk about "losing" jobs to becoming Limited Jobs, when the purpose and reality of Limited Jobs is that we're lucky to see those jobs represented at all.

That exact same argument was used when Viera were revealed to actually be gender locked and when they announced Hrothgar out of nowhere. "You guys are lucky that they even added them!!"

Please.

I pay for and expect quality. They need to get creative just like how they did when they added the males. They even said they looked to people's fan art for inspiration. Maybe they should take a look at people's concepts of how a full Blue Mage job would work. Now we're asking them to come up with 20 or so core rotation spells so that we can do more stuff as Blue Mage. There were other avenues that they could have taken from the start with this and many other problems.

They could have added logos actions to Eureka from the start, but in deciding to "not overwhlem players" the result was that Eureka was an instant turn off for many. They could have added both genders of Hrothgar as they originally intended or done both genders of Viera and they could have avoided the backlash over reintroducing gender locked races in 2019.

And they could have avoided this drama over Blue Mage if they had envisioned it as a full job from the start, put the spells in the overworld instead of *ex trials* where the chances of getting the spell was so abysmally low that barely anyone got those spells at launch. Then, once you got the spells, you could queue for Duty Finder and have access to all the other content in the game.

If for some reason there actually is a lack of creativity as to how to introduce a hunter or beast master without it being limited, then they need to get some new people in. Goodness knows that the battle team has made several interesting blunders in the past like removing Energy Drain from Scholar and making it so that Bard can't even hear its own songs. Maybe if that's the problem they should hire some new people.



Or hey, would you look at that. They could also take a clue from how WoW's beast mastery hunter works. I'd love to a job like it added in game as opposed to limited beast master. Why? Because it can tame cool pets and do the same content as everyone else. It has the quirk of taming monsters but that is not all that the class is reduced to.

Nevertheless a quick glance at the ratio going on in the first page speaks for itself. Limited jobs are viewed as a waste of resources by many and people do not want cool jobs reduced to mini games. A hunter who tames monsters is a standard fantasy trope and if they cannot figure out how to make that a full job, that's a problem. Period.