Will Beastmaster appear in any Endwalker content patches?

[jon041065]

Genuinely curious, since you still haven't suggested how a job like "balanced BLU" would actually play -- how to replace its core playstyle after gutting everything from the current iteration and demanding essentially a new job in its place -- but somehow have the tautological impression that it already is fundamentally different by virtue of... what? The name alone?
So here's your chance to prove your point. If the people who were once pining for BLU to even be represented are now so thoroughly disgusted by how the Limited Job version turned out that they would prefer to have never seen it at all, then please, do show me any material on what would hypothetically have replaced it if not for Limited Jobs.

Anything.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...l-Blu-Concepts

Also, again, many of us are not asking for the side content that is current blu to be removed or stopped receiving updates. We just want to have blue mage the job available to play the game with as you can any of the other combat jobs.

[Archwizard]

Designing the intricacies of job abilities and potencies is not my job, it's the dev team's. I absolutely would not have wanted Blue Mage added to this game at all if it meant that it could *only* be a limited job. I would have preferred literally anything else. It's their job to get creative and fix this situation, not mine.

See that's the problem, right.

To me, there's no difference between what you're suggesting, and someone wearing a Blue Mage glamour over any other caster.

It's like this right:
Black Mage is defined by being the Wizard Classic, the full offensive damage caster. You cannot have a Black Mage who, say, heals people or summons pets. It could have damage buffs, but that isn't the bare minimum.
Red Mage is defined by combining Black Magic, White Magic and swordplay. You cannot have a Red Mage without all three of those elements. It could have Dualcast, but a Red Mage isn't defined by having it.
Summoner is defined by the ability to summon eidolons from across the series like Bahamut and Phoenix to fight for them. That's a thing about its playstyle that is fundamentally unique to it. It just got off a multi-expansion train of pointing out that the Egis were glorified DoTs (terrible ones, I might add) and lacking the actual connection to summoning meant it was a Summoner in name only. EW is where we're hearing in droves "This is what SMN always should have been."

Time Mage? Well it's the master of space and time. It doesn't really matter exactly what it does, as long as it controls time in some capacity, like through DoTs and buffs.
Geomancer? It just needs elemental effects and some connection to the battlefield, even if that's as simple as putting down GTAoEs like Salted Earth, or standing in buff fields like Ley Lines.

What is the fundamental "Blue Mage"? The user of enemy skills -- but if it learns them from leveling instead of from enemies, and we compress them down to Current Content Balanced level so the effects are neutered or entirely different, then all of those would be enemy skills in name only. To repeat an example, White Wind just being a reskin on Medica and so on. You could get the same effect by just taking Black Mage, reskinning all of its skills for flavor, and swapping a couple here and there for utility -- but would you call that a Blue Mage?
So how would they define Blue Mage in spite of that?

I'm not talking about potencies or what buffs it juggles, I'm asking what about any hypothetical future job would make you say "this is quintessentially a Blue Mage -- not a Black, Red, Green, White or Time Mage. This is what Blue Mage should have been."

Because without that clear idea, without actionable feedback, we're just going to be caught in an infinite loop of "It wasn't what I wanted, start over." "Okay, well what did you want?" "That's your job to figure out."

Also, again, many of us are not asking for the side content that is current blu to be removed or stopped receiving updates. We just want to have blue mage the job available to play the game with as you can any of the other combat jobs.

You can't do that with the current iteration though without scrapping most of the existing spells. Anything tied to a CC effect on an enemy (which is most of those filler spells), anything with Instant Death potential, anything that significantly hampers you or allies in some way, anything more powerful than what a dedicated tank or healer has access to (ie Diamondback or White Wind).

By the end of it all you'd be left with... what, 3-4 redundant filler spells, Pom Cure, Angel Whisper, Song of Torment and a handful of Primal cooldowns?

And having reviewed your link, I would ask you to put such concepts under the same microscope I invited aveyond to consider: would being given a job like that make you say "this is quintessentially a Blue Mage", regardless of what name was slapped on it?
Or is the only important thing here just seeing a job named Blue Mage with the same cap as everyone else?

[Auryan]

You can't do that with the current iteration though without scrapping most of the existing spells. Anything tied to a CC effect on an enemy (which is most of those filler spells), anything with Instant Death potential, anything that significantly hampers you or allies in some way, anything more powerful than what a dedicated tank or healer has access to (ie Diamondback or White Wind).

By the end of it all you'd be left with... what, 3-4 redundant filler spells, Pom Cure, Angel Whisper, Song of Torment and a handful of Primal cooldowns?

Exactly. Limited BLU is interesting because of it's customization, wide array of weird and gimmicky spells and lack of overall balance. To add BLU to the standard heap, you'll have to gut everything that is remotely interesting. Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else. I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

[Archwizard]

I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

Honestly it wouldn't shock me if they capped such a version for the achievement and then never touched it again, retreating back to old favorites.

[Tabbs]

You can't do that with the current iteration though without scrapping most of the existing spells. Anything tied to a CC effect on an enemy (which is most of those filler spells), anything with Instant Death potential, anything that significantly hampers you or allies in some way, anything more powerful than what a dedicated tank or healer has access to (ie Diamondback or White Wind).

By the end of it all you'd be left with... what, 3-4 redundant filler spells, Pom Cure, Angel Whisper, Song of Torment and a handful of Primal cooldowns?

You can though. Anything is possible. All it takes is a little creativity, which they have plenty of on their team. I don't really understand this frequent take I keep seeing where people think full blu means the dev team prunes OP abilities and then calls the rest a "full job".

Realistically, making a full version of blue mage means adding a gauge (or other mechanic) and a set of new spells that are intended to be used in a certain order with some situational variation. Animations could be re-used where possible, maybe even whole skills, but it wouldn't feel the same as the current blue mage.

Job identity is a whole different argument that I will not get into because fundamentally we will just disagree.

Or is the only important thing here just seeing a job named Blue Mage with the same cap as everyone else?

Replied before your edit, but this is essentially it. Why most people just will disagree here. For me, a caster (or any role) with blue mage flavor and lore is enough. I DO enjoy and see value in the limited version as well, but its content rotation is so minimal that i never touch it outside of blu patches or moogle tomes. If, in time, all limited jobs shared a level cap with normal jobs and could do all the same content but in their own circle? I would not have any complaints.

[aveyond-dreams]

Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else. I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

If Blue Mage were a normal job with a standard rotation during Shadowbringers:

I would have dedicated the time to levelling it through roulettes/Bozja by playing with other people in actual content as opposed to just letting a max level player kill things for me in the overworld.

I would have specifically grinded out the remaining caster sets from the NieR raids in order to create Velvet Room glams for the class based off the Persona series.

I would have sunk the time into getting its relic weapon from Bozja like I did for a number of my jobs.

I would have dropped the $$$ to potentially boost the class on my alts depending how well the job fits each character.

I would have likely cycled through it and my other casters while running dungeons/raids that specifically drop caster gear in order to grind for glamours.

I likely would have done some new game plus for Blue Mage especially the 5.1-.3 patches.

I also probably would have done a few extremes as it if I liked the weapon from the fight for the job.

Instead this expansion I used Blue Mage in: literally nothing, because I got all my moogle event rewards by doing regular activities with other jobs in previous expansions or passively while doing content with the other full jobs. The game does not stop once you hit max level on a job, for a lot of players that's when the real fun and challenges begin. I do not care where or how the normal group mode spells are learned-whether through a job story quest battle or overworld mobs that are within access to all. The job as it is now is full of an absurd number of roadblocks on a path that at best only leads to rewards a lot of people already own, with its unique rewards being lackluster and underwhelming in comparison.

Honestly it wouldn't shock me if they capped such a version for the achievement and then never touched it again, retreating back to old favorites.

The only reason I'm bothering to share my thoughts on the job at all is because I want to be able to play it, along with the other jobs I levelled and played regularly during this expansion. I just don't want to be limited to a carnival with 1000 copies of the same spell or having to wait 10 hours in party finder to get the spells locked behind dungeons, and for some reason, ex fights. I still vividly remember seeing people post about how they had cleared the Shiva ex fight over 100 times and still never saw the spell drop. And now that they nerfed the spell rng, no one does these fights as blue mage anymore beyond its 2 week window of activity when each patch is released.

What would limited beast master even get as a "unique" reward? The supposed teddy bear fashion item Yoship teased in a live letter months ago? Allied seals? A new umbrella? It makes the tentacle monster mob mount model that's been in the game since 2010 look just as good as the Ultimate Kamuy by comparison. Please spend my sub and mog station money on literally anything else at that point.

[jon041065]

You can't do that with the current iteration though without scrapping most of the existing spells. Anything tied to a CC effect on an enemy (which is most of those filler spells), anything with Instant Death potential, anything that significantly hampers you or allies in some way, anything more powerful than what a dedicated tank or healer has access to (ie Diamondback or White Wind).

By the end of it all you'd be left with... what, 3-4 redundant filler spells, Pom Cure, Angel Whisper, Song of Torment and a handful of Primal cooldowns?

And having reviewed your link, I would ask you to put such concepts under the same microscope I invited aveyond to consider: would being given a job like that make you say "this is quintessentially a Blue Mage", regardless of what name was slapped on it?
Or is the only important thing here just seeing a job named Blue Mage with the same cap as everyone else?

I want a job that can learn enemy abilities one way or another and that those abilities/spells make up a large portion of the job's toolkit. To me that would be a blue mage job.

A lot of us asking for there to be a full job blue mage are not asking for the limited job side content to be removed from the game and not receive further updates. So if we can have that content as well as a full job blu, then why would you be concerned about what that version of blu would look like? Are you desiring for there to be a version of blue mage that is not limited? If you don't, then it seems like this point is an attempt to say that the side I'm on can not ask for what we want because you wouldn't like it. That's not much different then those on my side wanting limited blu to stop being updated and the resources put elsewhere. Both sides should be able to have what they are asking for without it costing the other side. There are ways to do this such as what you said in a previous post with the hypothetical situation of unlocking full bst via participating in limited bst content.

[Auryan]

If Blue Mage were a normal job with a standard rotation during Shadowbringers:

I would have dedicated the time to levelling it through roulettes/Bozja by playing with other people in actual content as opposed to just letting a max level player kill things for me in the overworld.

I would have specifically grinded out the remaining caster sets from the NieR raids in order to create Velvet Room glams for the class based off the Persona series.

I would have sunk the time into getting its relic weapon from Bozja like I did for a number of my jobs.

I would have dropped the $$$ to potentially boost the class on my alts depending how well the job fits each character.

I would have likely cycled through it and my other casters while running dungeons/raids that specifically drop caster gear in order to grind for glamours.

I likely would have done some new game plus for Blue Mage especially the 5.1-.3 patches.

I also probably would have done a few extremes as it if I liked the weapon from the fight for the job.

Instead this expansion I used Blue Mage in: literally nothing, because I got all my moogle event rewards by doing regular activities with other jobs in previous expansions or passively while doing content with the other full jobs. The game does not stop once you hit max level on a job, for a lot of players that's when the real fun and challenges begin. I do not care where or how the normal group mode spells are learned-whether through a job story quest battle or overworld mobs that are within access to all. The job as it is now is full of an absurd number of roadblocks on a path that at best only leads to rewards a lot of people already own, with its unique rewards being lackluster and underwhelming in comparison.

Good...for you? It's nice that you did all of that with every single job. I can't relate. From my personal experience: I leveled all of the jobs to max, barely touched most of them afterwards. Can count on one hand the number of times I switched to any of the tanks and most of the melees. On the other hand, I made use of BLU. Got the job to max, got all the spells, enjoyed the questline, finished the Gogo fight. I had a good time. Which is more than can I see about the other jobs/roles I mentioned earlier.

And that's just a matter of content and playstyle we enjoy. Difference between us though is that I am aware and have accepted that BLU is side content, a fact I know that bothers a lot of people here. You just wanting another caster to grind with doesn't make turning a piece of side content into something it isn't any more reasonable. If you want a generic, nameless caster for that, maybe wait for 7.0 or something. It doesn't even sound like you specifically want a caster anyway, any new job would do.

[aveyond-dreams]

You just wanting another caster to grind with doesn't make turning a piece of side content into something it isn't any more reasonable. If you want a generic, nameless caster for that, maybe wait for 7.0 or something. It doesn't even sound like you specifically want a caster anyway, any new job would do.

Oh I definitely want a new caster, but if I had the option to play as a full Blue Mage, you know the classic FF job, I’d probably take that on instead of...green mage. I’m going to make my thoughts on the matter known loud and clear every chance I get, especially when people want to “add” classic jobs to this game and then restrict them to mini games.

Historically, this has been the only way that things have ever changed for the better in this game. A problem occurs, we identify it and make the matter known, and it is eventually solved. Usually, anyway. I have no reason to "accept" Blue Mage as it is, just like how I didn't need to accept a Summoner who cast more poisons than summon magic and a Bard who at the launch of Shadowbringers couldn't even buff their party members.

You can keep your mini game if you want, but we objectively lost an iconic FF job to play with in current content because of the limited job system. I do not believe that jobs should be reduced to mini-game and moogle event only status. If they wanted to add another mini-game, they should have just added bliztball or something else anyone could enjoy without such a convoluted experience that Blue Mage is today.

Blue Mage was a full job in FFXI. Beast Mastery Hunter is a full job in WoW. Anyone can go into these games and have fun with other people doing the latest content, without much fuss. FFXIV’s Blue Mage can only do old things and...a mini-game. After someone at max level boosts you all the way to 70 and you spend...who even knows how many hours in party finder waiting for someone to take pity and help you learn your spells locked behind primal ex fights (who okayed that idea??).

If anything FFXIV should be moving things forwards instead of backwards, and "limited" should be the last word in anyone's vocabulary when it comes to people's jobs. And I don't mean "renaming it to advanced!" I mean that all jobs should be able to do the content that we are paying for. If a job has an extra side thing? Cool. Bard can play music, and Summoners can glamour their pets. Blue Mage can keep its carnival as a relic of the past, while still having a kit it can use in modern content.

[MellowMink]

Another reminder that restricting Blue Mage to being a "real" DPS job means limiting its role flexibility by no longer allowing it to also be a healer or tank role depending on individual player preferences and unique customization options; in fact, I made a post earlier in this very thread pointing out several ways that some previously proposed changes to the current design of Blue Mage are ironically limiting themselves...

It's also worth noting again that Blue Mage is intentionally meant to be playable as either a DPS, healer, or tank job; limiting it to say only the first of those as one of multiple steps to removing its status as a "limited job" would ironically be more limiting in and of itself. There's currently a lot of flexibility with role selection, how you acquire spells, and what subset of spells you wish to select between; I don't want it to just become another ordinary job with a limited set of spells that everyone has with a more limited mechanic of how spells are learned versus its currently more unique way to learn new spells...

Some of the opposition that I've seen to Blue Mage's current design include proposed limitations, which is also another reason why I think that "limited job" is a currently misleading and inaccurate name; "unique" and "limited" mean different things. I made a thread with a proposed name change under the "Other Battle Systems" forum too, so feel free to comment under there if wanted since it applies to "limited jobs" as a whole, not specifically Blue Mage or Beastmaster.

That all said, there are of course some different improvements that I would like to see with the current "limited job" though. For instance, I would like to see the job icon change color when a different role is mimicked; that not being implemented currently increases possible miscommunication during Party Finder instances since buffs (like mimicked roles) aren't visible across servers until players are in the same instance together. Because Shadowbringers is now totally finished, it's also time for the job to receive more spell, blue log, quest, and duty opportunities from said expansion, so I look forward to seeing that future update too.

I put a lot of thought and time into the exact wording for some of my posts, so it admittedly bothers me when certain counterpoints are totally ignored. This happened to some other existing Blue Mage fans too, such as when one such fan previously responded to a false claim about many spells supposedly being exactly the same despite them not selectively choosing to not look at additional differences like unique action ranges and radiuses... and yet it was ignored in favor of repeating misinformation several more times later.