Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[ReiMakoto]

You can't call someone not wanting to analyze DPS numbers selfish, if that is not their focus for the game. Many just want to clear a fight once for the clear, and the game itself offers the opportunity to do that by learning your job, understanding the mechanics of the fight. It is not your place to analyze a player and give them unwanted advice.

It is selfish when it is your dps causing people not to clear, ive seen people reach the 3rd or 4th fight of a raid tier who can do mechinics perfectly but are atrocious at dealing damage. End of the day dealing dps is a mechanic itself when it comes to harder content, and it is selfish not wanting to improve it for the betterment of your party. Having the ability to see who is underperforming would prevent entire groups having to dispand instead of just the one whos holding people back

[DynnDiablos]

We don't want to take ownership or lock content for anyone tho, we just want to make sure people know what is asked of them when trying to compete in this hard content.
Actually there is a whole discord server and community dedicated to SHARE their information to everyone who just clicks the button to join. The Balance discord and therefore most of the community is welcoming and actually encouraging newcomers and everyone who wants to learn and improve.
Also everyone can do this in their own pace, nothing is asked of you, but to be nice and polite.



As I said before: that's fair and I encourage it, but I also think it would be fair to give those people in the game that want to become the best the ingame utilities to do so.
Regarding the harrassment that is mentioned all the time: people calling you out in a rude manner should still be reported, basically nothing would change imo. Someone being rude because you are not doing so well? Report them, they should receive a (temp) ban.
If someone just neutrally speaks up about your performance you can either ignore them or take the advice, that's the decision to make and everyone can do as they please.

Then what is asked and expected of players needs to fundamentally change. Savage and Extreme should be completely redesigned and content restricted in a way to cater to these needs, because how they are designed now...it isn't requiring what people who are parsing are asking for.

I get it goes beyond mechanics and placement. There are DPS thresholds and various checks that need to be completed (honestly I've never had an issue with EX-trials so this must really be for Savage and Ultimate), but the game itself isn't saying these numbers are what is important. Raid teams, PC players have created these requirements themselves and what is deemed needed for smooth completion. Therefore, as I said, you can't expect things from players who are just playing the game the way it is presented.

We are being told we have the ilvl to enter Savage or Ultimate. We are given the option to say we have never cleared it before. These are all the checks and balances the game provides. That is it. So at the end of the day, players will need to be very clear and strict in the parties they create for it or have to understand casual players will be wanting to do this content and aren't going to take kindly to being criticized because people are viewing applications they have no access to.

[Senn]

It has become apparent that a lot of people only want a DPS meter as a tool to monitor other players and/or replace party members. Having your numbers out in the open like that can lead to players getting shamed and harassed as well - which has already happened. I've been in parties where players are calling out other player's parses. Those interactions are rarely pleasant.

I don't support that at all, and Yoshi P is probably of the same mindset. That's why it's unlikely a DPS meter will be added.

I'm all for a personal DPS meter that only shows your own DPS as long as it's used for the purpose of self-improvement. If your party keeps wiping, you need to communicate with them.

[ReiMakoto]

You are not paying for my subscription. You have no authority to dictate how I want to play or if I need to improve or not. End of the day. The game is designed a certain way without the use of damage meters. You should take the initiative to state VERY CLEARLY your requirements for a Savage Party or Ultimate party so people can choose whether or not to stay.

Also, I don't pay yours, so you have every right to not want to play with me. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a party with you anyway since our game goals and motivations are obviously VERY different.

As for learning/clear parties, you have no right to be saying anything about anyone.

This is the textbook definition of a toxic casual mindset.

Say we have a clear party for e3s, the party is full of fairly average players except one player, lets call him Billy. Billy is a Samurai who deals less damage than your average healer, but does mechanics perfectly. In your party of average people with one billy, you will likely hit enrage, and this is where we have a dilema. Everyone in this party has the agreed upon mindset they are learning to try and clear the fight however billy is letting the side down. You say, "you dont pay his sub billy can play how he likes" but we've all agreed we want to clear this content, Billy wants to clear this content. In a scenario with no damage meters, the party is at an impass, sure everyone could theoretically try to be better to bypass Billy, however no one knows that Billy is the problem. I have seen this scenario before, and in this case the party will likely dispand cos if no one can work out where the loose end is, its probably better to just start fresh again, and a party where most players could have cleared it has to wait longer for their clear. In this scenario Billy is being selfish, he has decided he is going to do content that requires high dps, and not focus on his dps. Billy is fine to focus on what he likes, but when his focus is detrimenting others, there needs to be a clear way to identify it and act upon it. So if im the party lead for a clear or learning party, I do have the right to say something about someone, Billy isnt paying our sub, and he is being an active detriment to achieiving our goals however no one would know that.

[DynnDiablos]

It has become apparent that a lot of people only want a DPS meter as a tool to monitor other players and/or replace party members. Having your numbers out in the open like that can lead to players getting shamed and harassed as well - which has already happened. I've been in parties where players are calling out other player's parses. Those interactions are rarely pleasant.

I don't support that at all, and Yoshi P is probably of the same mindset. That's why it's unlikely a DPS meter will be added.

I'm all for a personal DPS meter that only shows your own DPS as long as it's used for the purpose of self-improvement. If your party keeps wiping, you need to communicate with them.

This is why I have mine hidden, since they can be uploaded without your permission. It really is no one's business.

[Senn]

...

The game should be telling Billy that his DPS is lacking then lol

How about instead of a party DPS meter, we could give Billy a personal meter to show how well he's performing mid fight?
Let's say on one end of the meter, it's red, and on the other end, it's green. If Billy is in the red, then he'll know he's doing poorly. If he's in the green, he's doing good. If Billy's DPS start slowing down, the meter will fall into the red, and if his DPS picks back up, it'll go back into the green. This meter could be small so it doesn't clutter the UI. Doesn't SSS determine how much DPS you need based on the fight and the job of your character? The meter could function the same way. (I also want a dps meter that would show me my DPS numbers though.)

At least with this, Billy will be aware he's holding everyone back.

[AmeliaVerves]

Then what is asked and expected of players needs to fundamentally change. Savage and Extreme should be completely redesigned and content restricted in a way to cater to these needs, because how they are designed now...it isn't requiring what people who are parsing are asking for.

I think you are either generalizing too much or misunderstand what 'parsing players' are asking for.
Most of us are asking you to provide the dps needed to clear the encounter at hand (speaking for savage and ultimate), even tho the game does not provide these numbers they are still out there in the code. Hard coded enrage timers for bosses.
Do X amount of damage to the boss in y minutes.
We did not make up these requirements, the devs implemented them when designing the bosses period.

And this is why people are asking for an ingame tool to monitor if we can meet these requirements that are coded in the game. That would be perfectly fine as a starting point and maybe we will find out that it this will not lead to a purge within the playerbase. lmao

[DynnDiablos]

This is the textbook definition of a toxic casual mindset.

words

I don't believe I've said anything that would define me as having a "casual toxic mindset." What I am saying is to be clear from the start. You are creating a learning/clear party in PF. Some joins who has the required gear and wants to play E1S for example. They play on PS4...have no access to a parcer, most likely don't even know what it is and you begin to tell them, "well based on my program you are the problem and need to improve or get out" AFTER the party has already gotten things going. That to me is a problem.

You don't have to like what I am saying, you can call me every nasty name under the sun. But I am speaking truth, this game did not design Savage or Ultimate content to be monitored by parcers nor does it require them for people to join with the way things are designed. You PC players have utilized them to create your own thresholds the game does not adhere to.

Which is why YOU need to be one, in the beginning, stating you will be analyzing these things or have everyone agree to certain terms. Also, by calling someone out for their low DPS it is automatically going to be assumed you are using an outside program and you will be reported. So if you are going to play with randoms, you need to understand you are opening yourself up to players with different tools, skillsets and desires. Of course they want to clear it, but they aren't utilizing tools you are to do so and most won't appreciate having their performance publically shamed.

This is why I say be clear upfront, state how you plan to run it and that is it. As I said, I put in my PF for Savage learning we won't be analyzing numbers, won't be using outside sources and are just looking to learn and have a stress-free time. In the end it is very pleasant knowing you don't have someone like you analyzing my every move looking for a weak link. Selfish goes both ways, sweetie.

Now you have a lovely and wonderful day.

[DynnDiablos]

I think you are either generalizing too much or misunderstand what 'parsing players' are asking for.
Most of us are asking you to provide the dps needed to clear the encounter at hand (speaking for savage and ultimate), even tho the game does not provide these numbers they are still out there in the code. Hard coded enrage timers for bosses.
Do X amount of damage to the boss in y minutes.
We did not make up these requirements, the devs implemented them when designing the bosses period.

And if you are passing these DPS checks, even if you aren't performing to the level someone else would like, end of story. If you are following mechanics and passing these thresholds in the game, you shouldn't be called out because it isn't going as fast as YOU would like.

[QT_Melon]

Then what is asked and expected of players needs to fundamentally change. Savage and Extreme should be completely redesigned and content restricted in a way to cater to these needs, because how they are designed now...it isn't requiring what people who are parsing are asking for.

I have to disagree a bit here. The role you signed up for is for the most part what you should be doing. DPS (Damage Per Second) or other places may refer to them as DD (Damage Dealer) by name says you need to be doing damage. If you're doing less damage than the other role assignments I do believe that's a problem. If you're just doing a bit less because not all jobs are created equal and other factors like gear is a thing, that's less of a problem for most circumstances.

The Lawns are there for you to see if you're close to the threshold of the required damage. While they ARE NOT required to get in - to say that there's nothing in FFXIV's design to show there isn't a meter for the requirement is a misnomer. It's ideal to pass it but you'll know something is majorly wrong if you can't get at least 80-90% on the Lawns/ Stone Sea Sky encounter consistently.

Yes there are other factors, but even guildhests and other parts of this game do enforce what is required of your role even if you're in a group.