Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[AmeliaVerves]

Because the players do. The rotations theorycrafted by the community are done after hours or rigorous testing, simulation, and mathematics. They aren’t just pulled out of someone’s behind. That you choose to ignore them because you seem to believe the DeVs KnOw BeSt is a detriment only to yourself.

Not sure, since I don't play any other MMOs, but isn't it common practice to leave some 'work'/theorycrafting to the playerbase and community? Like figuring out best rotations and BiS sets + best melds and so on?
Only weird thing is that SE doesn't give any ingame resources to do so.

[jameseoakes]

I like to think I haven't been nasty. I have not called the player any names and barely commented on their performance. I kept my criticism on their attitude, which I believe is unhealthy for anyone to have regardless of skill level and the content. It isn't good for anyone to be very hostile at the mere idea of getting feedback.

Can't disagree with some of that, however the feedback was very hostile, and honestly once someone started dredging up there logs it got personal and it really does just look like bullying. Not saying people where wrong to comment on some of what they where saying but that whole thing got way to personal on them and looked really spiteful as a whole.

[hasana]

But don't go into dungeon finder and force your play style on anyone.

Its funny how this rule never applies to leechers.

You're playing with people on a team work setup you better do your job.

[Schan]

I would hazard that most people who parse arent typically toxic.

all it takes is one bad day for you to get the "toxic" label from the anti-parser people and trust me that bad day will come.

much like the competitive games the worst players are often the loudest.

The fact is: people who use it wrongly exist and therefore they will be used as baseline for the argument against parsers.
Pro-parsers will be doing the same thing by pointing out how toxic casuals can be because there is also a small fraction of the casual playerbase that is toxic.

People need to acknowledge that toxicity exists in every level of play. Now we need to figure out if we are willing to give them more tools they can use to be toxic with or not and if we are letting them getting away with it or not.

WE might complain about the toxic players all we want but if you see it happen but don't do anything about it then you're just as bad as the toxic people because you're enabling that behaviour.

[CrocodileRocking]

Its funny how this rule never applies to leechers.

You're playing with people on a team work setup you better do your job.

Why so serious? You'd be much happier not getting mad about someone leeching in content that doesn't require more then one button pressing to beat? Take it as a chellenge and beat it dispute that leech. I can guarantee it will make you feel much better. Your blood pressure won't be so high.

If you require that in extreme or savage I wouldn't even bat and eye but easy casual content comeon people its not that serious

You can keep repeating that line, and you can have your belief in what youre saying. But the bottom line is that I and many others here dont consider it that. My belief is you want to wade into a conversation, be bombastic, crass, and talk like you know best, dont be suprised when people go to see if you know what youre talking about. Because one of the pitfalls of forums and the internet is that people tend to talk out their ass about things they dont know to well because they think they know all they need to from very little experience OR assume people wont or cant catch them on it. This is bad for discourse at times as it can lead to people promoting false hoods.

Harassment would be me making characters on thier server and whispering stuff at them. Stalking would be searching out their FC, Friends, and etc and getting as much dirt as I can on them. Checking to see if theyve cleared savage or have even participated in it after claims of being 'that good' is no where near that. But I digress.

You may not like it or agree, but you have your opinion and many of us have ours. You can choose to keep trying and portraying us as 'bad people', being hyperbolic, and over using and expanding definitions of harassment and stalking to suit your feelings, OR you can say "Well thats my thoughts. Agree to disagree" and move on.

If you all would take your own advice it wouldn't have gone this far.

The base of the argument they made was that they didn't need a parser to tell how good they were doing, which is why the information was brought up though. The information quickly countered that.

It doesn't matter what your reason is, looking up peoples information to counter an argument is never a good reason to. It's stalking plain and simple. Do you like it when people go through your face book downloading your pictures and posting in all over the internet? This is not a job application. This is not trying to find evidence to persecute someone for a crime? This is a video game. It's people's hobby like face book. No one has any right to pull up people's information to shame them. It's freaking wrong and creepy.

My time being wasted is serious. Thankfully, we have a kick feature.

Yes kick, leave, whatever and move on. No need to be confrontational.

People did. The resulting screenshots were provided as evidence.

When someone's entire argument is based around their damage, looking up exactly how much they do is picking apart their argument. Nobody was going after them on a personal level beyond how terrible their attitude was.

Most of all your attitudes were bad, not just that person. And you're still wondering why Yoshi doesn't want a parse?

Also, we need to stop beating this dead horse or Yoshi is going to take away what he's turning the blind eye to as well and we all don't want that.

Its not harassment if if the truth, this is the only MMO community where that seems to constantly be in question, Its harassment to seek out threads involving Endgame discssion and talk down to people, all while saying they have no knowledge of endgame content or how it functions in the same sentence, this person seeks out these reactions and its glaringly obvious.

So you stoop to their level? And yes it's harassment even if you're right. The person had very bad choice of words and no one is saying they're innocent but you keeping on badgering them is harassment. If you feel that they are harassing you, report and move on. Stooping to their level makes you petty.

Just dropping in to point out something I don't often see pointed out:

Thanks to parsing, a rando DPS will occasionally get my commendation instead of the usual tank/healer, because I can see they are doing well.

Ok this is my last post lol don't want to keep on dragging this topic along and get the parse taken away because I do love the parsing. But yeah i always commend DPS now because there's some really good players out there that can put out some crazy dps. I try so hard but can never get to their level.

[MomomiMomi]

Why so serious? You'd be much happier not getting mad about someone leeching in content that doesn't require more then one button pressing to beat? Take it as a chellenge and beat it dispute that leech. I can guarantee it will make you feel much better. Your blood pressure won't be so high.

If you require that in extreme or savage I wouldn't even bat and eye but easy casual content comeon people its not that serious

My time being wasted is serious. Thankfully, we have a kick feature.

[Penthea]

Oh you're definitely not innocent I'll tell you that.

Please enlighten me as to how I have been nasty.

I did not expose their logs. I did not expose anything from xivanalysis. I did not insult them for the results. I did not insult them by saying they're toxic or a dead weight. I did not use the fact that they have been playing for years as a way to laugh at them. I even took the time to explain why things played out the way they did because I was under the impression that they didn't realise saying certain things makes some people want to look up logs. At most I have said that they need to do some work on their combat, which is about as vague as a person could be.

Unless criticising someone for a bad attitude is nasty now?

As for responding to them multiple times, well if I am nasty for that then they are too for consistently trying to prove their point by responding to multiple people.

Can't disagree with some of that, however the feedback was very hostile, and honestly once someone started dredging up there logs it got personal and it really does just look like bullying. Not saying people where wrong to comment on some of what they where saying but that whole thing got way to personal on them and looked really spiteful as a whole.

I completely agree that some other people posting did apppear to be on a mission to expose or talk about their combat performance in order to have them ridiculed. I have said multiple times in this thread that I do not condone this behaviour. I am really not a fan of this, especially considering logs cannot provide additional context like having lag, being nervous, feeling unwell, joking on voice chat so you weren't paying attention, etc. There are many valid reasons why anyone can have a bad log.

But I found their attitude towards feedback very alarming. I criticised them based on the things they said in this thread, not something a third party site showed me.

[jameseoakes]

Please enlighten me as to how I have been nasty.

I completely agree that some other people posting did apppear to be on a mission to expose or talk about their combat performance in order to have them ridiculed. I have said multiple times in this thread that I do not condone this behaviour. I am really not a fan of this, especially considering logs cannot provide additional context like having lag, being nervous, feeling unwell, joking on voice chat so you weren't paying attention, etc. There are many valid reasons why anyone can have a bad log.

But I found their attitude towards feedback very alarming. I criticised them based on the things they said in this thread, not something a third party site showed me.

You also made it clear how you thought all of the harassment they were getting was their fault and basically joining in the hate mob they had which was not a nice thing to do.

[Angus-Beef]

What? The person definitely doesn't use their words properly but all I see in peoples response are passively agressively attacking said person.

They clearly admitted they were wrong but people keep on attacking them. What are they supposed to do...sit back and just watch others pull their name in the mud just because they dont like how that person said what they said? How does that make them any different that person?

Also they clearly stated they don't do extreme or savage and only do story stuff to go through the story. Why are people harping on their numbers? You can basically press one attack button to clear all that content if your gear is up to date.

My point of view on parsers.

I think they great. Whoever created them I can't thank them enough because it truly helps me get better because that's how I play.

But...people need to understand most people don't even care or think about what their numbers are especially the majority that doesn't even touch extreme or savage. I will never force anyone that plays that way to get gud because its not needed.

If you are a person that gets mad because strangers aren't playing their job properly and forcing your requirements on them in casual content you need to check yourself.

Do you go up to total strangers in real life telling them they need to get gud? I would think not Because you would get punched or bitch slapped.

Now if you started your own group or party you can make all the rules you want. Kick all your want and tell the person that joined your party they suck all you want because its your rules.

But don't go into dungeon finder and force your play style on anyone. You dont know what kind of situation the person on the other end is in. If you dont like that situation leave take that penalty, vote kick, etc and move on. There's rarely anything good about starting something that could become confrontational with a total stranger.

All of this literally goes both ways, if you call out people wanting the bare minimum, call out the people who die to the same boss Mechanic for 7 pulls and makes a 17 min a 40 min run. THe bare minimum is LITERALLY enforced by the game lol. THIS is why people always say use a parser, you can see the people underperforming and drop em and not take a debuff, I do agree with moving on after, but you're crazy if you think its ok for someone to leech.

Edit: and for the record, that person literally goes on every thread regarding endgame discussion and talks crap to people, I have no sympathy for them tbh.

[Penthea]

You also made it clear how you thought all of the harassment they were getting was their fault and basically joining in the hate mob they had which was not a nice thing to do.

They knowingly made a claim they knew couldn't back up. They're against the use of parsers, so the implication here is they don't use them. Yet they somehow knew they were outdpsing all their friends by a sizeable chunk. People of course wondered how they knew this. Obviously they didn't realise how fflogs works, because if they did they would not have made such a baseless claim.

Adding to that they said they outdpsed other people as a dancer, which is far from the strongest dps class in the game. If a blm said this the others here wouldn't have thought much of it, because everyone expects a blm to do huge damage. But a dancer saying this...now that's something worth looking in to for some people.

If you're going to brag, make sure you can back it up. Because if people find that what you're saying isn't true, then things won't turn out well for you.

I did not say they deserve harassment. I said that they got themselves into the situation. That is not saying they deserve harassment. I invite you to find exactly where I said they deserved to be insulted if you think I did say this.

I think they do deserve to be criticised for saying something about themselves that turned out to be untrue. But I do not think they deserve to be called a toxic casual deadweight, which is what some other people had said.