Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[xxvaynxx]

I'm going to suggest XIVAnalysis to you. It's a really good tool to tell you how to play more optimally. If you have ever uploaded a run, you can take the link from that run, select your character, and it will tell you the mistakes you made, broken combos, over-capping on job gauges, etc.

ACT also has settings to only target yourself if you are running it, so you don't really need to hide it. (although, it does have some glitches, sometimes anyone who heals will appear on your list with 0 DPS, since you aren't actively tracking them. Just keep it in mind that if you track only yourself, you need to make sure to have room to track others still, since others might appear.)

DPS isn't really the thing you should be monitoring. DPS loss is a direct result of mistakes, so you should be figuring out your mistakes, which is why I recommend XIVAnalysis.

XIVAnalysis is a good guideline but don't relay too much on it. There are times it flat out wrong happens a lot actually because it doesn't take in account somethings. There are times it said you clipped but you HAD to clip due to mechs, and some people think clipping is the end of the world when in some cases its a dps gain depending on the fight.
Cases with samurai, there are times you'll do yuki instead of gekko due to a certain part of mech but xiv will say you were wrong when players proved that doing X thing was a gain.

[Hash_Browns]

XIVAnalysis is a good guideline but don't relay too much on it. There are times it flat out wrong happens a lot actually because it doesn't take in account somethings. There are times it said you clipped but you HAD to clip due to mechs, and some people think clipping is the end of the world when in some cases its a dps gain depending on the fight.
Cases with samurai, there are times you'll do yuki instead of gekko due to a certain part of mech but xiv will say you were wrong when players out proved that doing X thing was a gain.

Oh yeah, of course.
Take everything with a grain of salt. It's just a really good tool for those looking to understand the classes they play, or to see how they can improve. It's not 100% accurate, just a great tool.

[Thamorian]

I do run ACT, sometimes, but I keep it hidden until the run is complete, then I analyze what I did right or wrong. Unfortunately, it's pretty much useless if there were no other players of the same class and ilevel in the group to compare against.

I'd love to have a built-in private parser that shows my performance and actions relative to an average of the last 50 runs by other players of my class and item level (+/-10) Let me view it at the end of the run if I want more data, or ignore it. Personally, I need to know how I'm doing relative to similar players. How else do I know if I need to improve or not?
Just show me the average DPS for the run, and a pie chart showing the damage by action. If I see all the higher DPS players using action X far more often than I do, then maybe I need to start doing the same.

Probably not just average but also highest recorded DPS for the same job.

[Angus-Beef]

Idk whats worse in the end, the fact that Yoshi P himself has broken down Twice his views on parsing and thats its not about a program being used, but the Harassment from some who use it. Or the fact that several people on this thread, and on the forums since HW have broken down what the issue with parsing is, and that all anyone is asking is the bare minimum.

The fact that the bare minimum is also an issue in the FIRST place is an issue, No one saying you have to be perfect, no ones Saying you have to be an Ultimate raider, but holy crap be willing to self improve IF YOU GO into EX and Savage, Thats literally all thats being said on the players end. And AGAIN, IF you EVER have someone in ANY run openly admitting to parsing and they are being a jerk, Report them, and If you aren't, realize YOU are part of this problem. Its as simple as that, arguing semantics, and basing all of this on emotions when there are so many logical ways to deal with all of this is honestly getting us no where as a comunity.

If you want to run EX and Savage and not parse, go learn your lvl 80 rotation, go spend time at the ShB Stone Sky Sea in Khlousia, Make sure you have pots and food, Its not fair for ANYONE to waste someone elses time, period, end of discussion.

If you're a raider/parser and you see a bad player, either nicely offer advice or kick them and leave it at that and move on, End of disccusion.

[xxvaynxx]

Probably not just average but also highest recorded DPS for the same job.

If there is one thing someone shouldn't do is also look at the highest parses that are in the 100's and 99's.
Because not only are they good but they also have a very strong team. Since its group content, because there is only so much you can do alone.
Believe it or not but someone of the highest dps are not even more better that a person that has 95%
I'll say imo is look at the 85 percentiles for the average of your job.

[xxvaynxx]

If you want to run EX and Savage and not parse, go learn your lvl 80 rotation, go spend time at the ShB Stone Sky Sea in Khlousia, Make sure you have pots and food, Its not fair for ANYONE to waste someone elses time, period, end of discussion.

If you're a raider/parser and you see a bad player, either nicely offer advice or kick them and leave it at that and move on, End of disccusion.

First want to apologize for coming off hostile and snarky if I did to you and thamorian.
But back to the topic.
This I agree with, as a former ps4 player. I gotten better from practicing my rotation and reading tips and tricks from my peers.
I had no access to parse to I was a disadvantage but over time I gotten better.

Going to contradict myself and say I do think it's not fair to be wasting people time and said person doesn't give a crap about improving and just freestyling.
However if the person is clearly trying then that's what I sympathize with since I use to be in the same shoes, not knowing Im underperforming.
If they're open to feedback and even leave the party themselves which actually has happened before, normally in savage.

[Angus-Beef]

First want to apologize for coming off hostile and snarky if I did to you and thamorian.
But back to the topic.
This I agree with, as a former ps4 player. I gotten better from practicing my rotation and reading tips and tricks from my peers.
I had no access to parse to I was a disadvantage but over time I gotten better.

Going to contradict myself and say I do think it's not fair to be wasting people time and said person doesn't give a crap about improving and just freestyling.
However if the person is clearly trying then that's what I sympathize with since I use to be in the same shoes, not knowing Im underperforming.
If they're open to feedback and even leave the party themselves which actually has happened before, normally in savage.

Oh theres no need to apologize, topics get heated.
But I do wants to say I also agree, if I see a person trying, I will take all the time needed to help/ I personally love helping others in FF, from basic mechanics to learning fights. But when I see a lazy player, casual or someone raiding, I just feel the best choice is to kick and move on.

[xxvaynxx]

Oh theres no need to apologize, topics get heated.
But I do wants to say I also agree, if I see a person trying, I will take all the time needed to help/ I personally love helping others in FF, from basic mechanics to learning fights. But when I see a lazy player, casual or someone raiding, I just feel the best choice is to kick and move on.

Yeah kicking is pretty much the only thing you can do.
Sometimes you wonder how they even got that far in savage.
Though I don't like kicking people, sometimes it has to be done if you want to clear.
It's a shame in our community lots of people take constructive criticism as an insult rather than taking it in stride to get better.
They either ignore you or blow up and yell at you.

But then you get that rare gem that change up their playstyle and start doing the advice they was given, its honestly cute too xD
Like beginner samurai not putting up their dot then they start trying to or the blm using fire 3 now to get out if ice stance instead if using fire 1 and trying to keep up their thunder.

[Sebazy]

While I understand what your saying, even for EX, Savage and Ultimate the game still isn't designed to take into account an outside Damage Meter and analyzing numbers. It truly comes down to mechanics.

I'm going to back track a little bit. This point of yours is rather dubious and a *VERY* shaky foundation to build your case from.

First off. It's really important to stress that this game does an appalling job of giving players feedback in far more ways than just any lack of a personal or group DPS meter. Try to keep a track of your dot damage in even a simple dungeon. It's nigh unfeasible on anything more than a single target static dummy. And of course it goes much further than that. Things such as crit/dhit ratios, relative stat values and more are kept in the dark from us.

If you make even modest attempts to push and improve your standards of play, chances are you are doing so through the use of data, rotations and materia selections that were derived from parser data even if you yourself are not the one actually running the parser. SMN was widely viewed as hot garbage out of the gate in the beginnings of ARR because it just wasn't clear how much damage it was doing until someone figured out how to calculate and parse it.

Secondly. Gordias called, it wants it's burst windows back. Whilst it's true that both EX and Savage are more watered down and easier than they have ever been, DPS requirements can still be pretty strict in early progression pushes and the majority of groups clearing a new Savage tier within the first few weeks will typically need to do a healthy amount of optimisation to achieve this without bouncing off enrage. Optimisation that simply isn't possible with the tools or lack of provided by the game itself.

If the content stopped at normal mode raids, EX trials and 24 man, I'd 100% agree with your sentiment. However it doesn't, so I don't. There are occasions where bursts of DPS are a mechanic in themselves even if they aren't as commonplace or harsh as they used to be in the past.

Please try to remember that whilst you might look at more recent content and wonder what us old timers are blathering about, we're still looking back at content like A3S and A6S. It's very difficult for us to ignore and forget the standards of play that that era of content required of us.

[Quor]

Players will continue to parse and posts parse meters on streams. They will not get banned. There was nothing stalwart about it.

Arthars disagrees.