Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[testname]

I feel like people tend to be able to tell who's under-performing even without a DPS meter tbh. But if you can't tell, just join a different party? I've had a few bad runs with people, and while it's annoying, I just look for a different party to join and it works out fine.

I just want to make it clear I don't personally dislike parsers. It's just that Yoshi P doesn't want them for some of the reasons I've already stated. Why do you think SSS is implemented the way it is? It's in a random zone where you attack a dummy by yourself. It's such an isolated and round about way to track your DPS, and the reason for that is to prevent drama that would ensue if DPS meters were a thing.

The problem for me is SSS just isn't enough. It doesn't allow you to test your DPS under mechanic heavy situations.

If we switched our mentality from "I want to hold people accountable for their dps" or "I want to use a dps meter to find out who I need to replace in a party" to instead "I want to use a dps meter to improve myself", then maybe Yoshi P might reconsider at least giving us a personal DPS meter.

Savage is not locked behind SSS, and that is issue ( people don't care about it - they think that doing mechanics for fight is enough - but it's not enough )

If You get two tanks pulling 2k DPS doing only 123, and whole party would play perfectly
( assuming it's minimum ilvl first week of savage ) = there is that barrier of Enrage

This is why everyone try to push their job to limit, using best potions and food, not to mention overmelds

Developers makes fights where we need to optimize our damage output to nearly perfection for kill ( Yoshi don't like optimization because it leads to toxicity - nor he believe that is needed to beat content - and I agree for normal [yet not for savage] )

[testname]

Try to paint while you are blind, we need damage metter for savage - and only for that - only for static's - only when all people agree before joining to use it - ( that would be amazing ) no more stupid 3rd party programs

[AmeliaVerves]

If I were to go and play soccer with a professional team, I would be an hindrance for them and they would have every right in the world to ask me to leave, because I don't belong there. I just don't get why the same logic can't be applied to this game.

That's not just for professional teams. Imagine joining a hobby succer club, but during the match you stand idle or just do the bare minimum. Ofc your team would be highly unpleased, especially when all of them gave their best to win.
Now that's a hobby and a game as well, but still the team tries to do their best. The same should be the way to go for FF, at least for savage and ultimate, imo.

[Wavaryen]

This is a good thing, I mean we already see just how bad the MMO community has become. Even now, you don't need the best group setup to do the harder content, but players are crying because they don't get invited because they are not part of the best setup for said raid.


I'm happy for this stance, and support the devs for it.

[Billythepancake]

This is a good thing, I mean we already see just how bad the MMO community has become. Even now, you don't need the best group setup to do the harder content, but players are crying because they don't get invited because they are not part of the best setup for said raid.


I'm happy for this stance, and support the devs for it.

In SB you might have had an argument. I've yet to.see a single pug lock out any class, except maybe AST, but when AST is locked out it's because there's usually already a WHM in the party and the AST/WHM combo is terrible.

[testname]

This is a good thing, I mean we already see just how bad the MMO community has become. Even now, you don't need the best group setup to do the harder content, but players are crying because they don't get invited because they are not part of the best setup for said raid.


I'm happy for this stance, and support the devs for it.

Turning Blind Eye ?

Saying is other thing, and doing is other

Same with Politics - they can say amazing stories -

[DynnDiablos]

I agree with the sentiment that dps is highly unimportant for everything below ex difficulty and to an extent for ex primals.
But I highly disagree on ultimate. I assume you have never stepped foot into any ultimate fight, which is perfectly fine and fair, but do believe me when I say: Executing the mechanics is. not. enough. You have to actually find ways to play mechanics AND maximize dps output. One could argue that you don't need parsers to figure that out, but you definetly need them to come up with max dps rotations in the first place, so indirectly you still need them.


I totally get people don't care about their dps or are not interested in optimizing after a certain point and are fine with being comfortable with their rotation. That's fair and cool and I think everyone should play the way the want to. This is a themepark MMO so by all means: don't let anyone tell you what to do with your time. But I find it sad that we cannot get to an agreement where at least a personal parser, or a group parser that needs agreement before being enabled for high difficulty content could be implemented to give those of us who WANT to optimize and play this certain way the chance to do so as well.

If it were something EVERYONE had to agree to before implementing sure. And if you have someone not interested then they know this isn't the party for them. You are right, I haven't stepped foot into an Ultimate fight nor would I ever want to. I play this game to relieve stress not create it. I would be an absolute wreck just from the emotional torment I would endure in such a fight. As for EX and Savage. I have cleared these fights knowing mechanics and keeping up and watching the videos. Sure there were some wipes, but never solely because of me (or it could of been, who knows I've never been told).

The fact is though in the end, even if they added an official group parser, people would still abuse it. It would be nice if everyone would agree to it, but at the end of the day, some would use it to judge other people anyway. Ultimately, I would say the Savage and Ultimate player-base who takes things super seriously is rather small compared to the people who play strictly for fun, story, socialization and glams. I can understand why this group wants to take ownership of this harder endgame content. But in the end, Yoshi isn't going to lock it away behind parcer requirements. Therefore, it is up to players creating parties to be VERY clear about what they want.

Some people treat this game like a profession, they strive to improve, and become the best of the best. However, many, like myself, play for fun with other focus. Honestly, if this game didn't have the story and crafting/gathering/housing I wouldn't even bother. I do the dungeons, raids for the clear, story and could care less about the rest.

[QT_Melon]

It should be noted that a parse is only a "thermometer" and doesn't exactly tell you the cause all the time. A raid leader or team need to look at the result and analyze the issue than just "well X is the lowest" *kick*

A healthy raid team looks at the data more objectively. Is there missing uptime. Is it just the DPS themselves? What can a team can do to contribute to the overall DPS. This is why healer DPS is looked at in a lot of times because it's contribution to a scripted fight. It isn't just about getting members that hit a certain percentile. Not to mention even that information can get misleading after a certain time frame because the Logs site doesn't account for gear levels which will affect the grade curve so to speak.

There's also at times a minimal amount that can put one from the top of said curve to the next one down ex. a difference of 200 dps would have put some classes in a lower tier/grade color from the next one.

Then there's the meta - the meta isn't bad per say it's basically there because of its benefits. However, despite the top players often saying that other compositions are fine - people will overfocus and exclude members just due to job. That is their prerogative if its their party.

There's fewer statics that keep members around for a while, shuffling happens often. I've been in one for many years where we didn't replace members during those years. In static terms, that's actually pretty impressive in NA. Because generally people will leave or break up in a short amount of time. There's other factors too not just numbers, but people forget the NA is pretty big region wise, where many people don't share the same time zone so planning around people in various time zones along with very different job schedules is another issue.


The raiding scene in FFXIV I'm going to admit has become rather boring. I have no interest in it unless it's going to be with members of the group I raided with. It was the group that made it for me and the memories we had. Sure gear was nice to win but overall it's been the same cycle of rewards and with how the gear is flatlining and same expectations of how it is released - boring, and with how the jobs perform , I also find it boring (Bard I guess I couldn't say that because for 3 patches its identity changed - and SMN I think moreso but I digress). It's the same song and dance - ie scripted fights. Introduce you to one dance step, now we're gonna add a new step. Now the dance teaches you 2 more steps till we add the full choreography. It's not to say that they aren't designed well - because they are. But you can only do so much with them. I also have various health issues with my vision and RSI that has messed up my nerves at times (which also affects my drawing and typing)

That's why I kinda went over to Monster Hunter. The randomness and less need for a DPS race is there. You can be the CC person that can help contribute more DPS to the group to kill the monster. Each experience feels a little more fresh than FFXIV. There are metas and ways to parse, but you still can find enjoyment without worrying about it as much and that's for all levels of monsters. You'll definitely find people or friends willing to help you on a hunt to get gear to fight a higher tier monster. It's a loop game so in a sense a lot more simple in its objectives but has levels of complexity in building sets to fight various monsters.

Like I said, I'm not against parsing, but sometimes points are left out to try to detail what a parser does and how its used. This causes a lot of conflict in understanding their use.

[AmeliaVerves]

I can understand why this group wants to take ownership of this harder endgame content.

We don't want to take ownership or lock content for anyone tho, we just want to make sure people know what is asked of them when trying to compete in this hard content.
Actually there is a whole discord server and community dedicated to SHARE their information to everyone who just clicks the button to join. The Balance discord and therefore most of the community is welcoming and actually encouraging newcomers and everyone who wants to learn and improve.
Also everyone can do this in their own pace, nothing is asked of you, but to be nice and polite.

Some people treat this game like a profession, they strive to improve, and become the best of the best. However, many, like myself, play for fun with other focus. Honestly, if this game didn't have the story and crafting/gathering/housing I wouldn't even bother. I do the dungeons, raids for the clear, story and could care less about the rest.

As I said before: that's fair and I encourage it, but I also think it would be fair to give those people in the game that want to become the best the ingame utilities to do so.
Regarding the harrassment that is mentioned all the time: people calling you out in a rude manner should still be reported, basically nothing would change imo. Someone being rude because you are not doing so well? Report them, they should receive a (temp) ban.
If someone just neutrally speaks up about your performance you can either ignore them or take the advice, that's the decision to make and everyone can do as they please.

[SaberMaxwell]

Like I said, a DPS meter shouldn't be used as a tool to hold other players who aren't you accountable. Nor should it be used as a tool to see which party members you need to replace. Stuff like this causes drama. That's the reason why Yoshi P won't allow a DPS meter. I know it's frustrating having a member of your party under-performing, but that's something we have to deal with, like we have always been doing.

It should be used for self-improvement - something that should be kept only to yourself.

That's where we'll have to agree to disagree: when you join, say, a Savage farm party, you're signing up for an activity that others will have expectations of you in. If one joins content like Savage or Ultimate (dear Lord, especially Ultimate), I'm sorry but they should be held accountable for their duty in the group just like everybody else. Tanks need to mitigate and position the boss, healers need to maintain a good healing and damage throughput, and DPS need to be cycling their rotations to the best of their ability. That Square refuses to offer a first-party solution just means people will go on using the third-party solution that Square cannot control, nothing changes.