Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[DynnDiablos]

I agree with the sentiment that dps is highly unimportant for everything below ex difficulty and to an extent for ex primals.
But I highly disagree on ultimate. I assume you have never stepped foot into any ultimate fight, which is perfectly fine and fair, but do believe me when I say: Executing the mechanics is. not. enough. You have to actually find ways to play mechanics AND maximize dps output. One could argue that you don't need parsers to figure that out, but you definetly need them to come up with max dps rotations in the first place, so indirectly you still need them.


I totally get people don't care about their dps or are not interested in optimizing after a certain point and are fine with being comfortable with their rotation. That's fair and cool and I think everyone should play the way the want to. This is a themepark MMO so by all means: don't let anyone tell you what to do with your time. But I find it sad that we cannot get to an agreement where at least a personal parser, or a group parser that needs agreement before being enabled for high difficulty content could be implemented to give those of us who WANT to optimize and play this certain way the chance to do so as well.

If it were something EVERYONE had to agree to before implementing sure. And if you have someone not interested then they know this isn't the party for them. You are right, I haven't stepped foot into an Ultimate fight nor would I ever want to. I play this game to relieve stress not create it. I would be an absolute wreck just from the emotional torment I would endure in such a fight. As for EX and Savage. I have cleared these fights knowing mechanics and keeping up and watching the videos. Sure there were some wipes, but never solely because of me (or it could of been, who knows I've never been told).

The fact is though in the end, even if they added an official group parser, people would still abuse it. It would be nice if everyone would agree to it, but at the end of the day, some would use it to judge other people anyway. Ultimately, I would say the Savage and Ultimate player-base who takes things super seriously is rather small compared to the people who play strictly for fun, story, socialization and glams. I can understand why this group wants to take ownership of this harder endgame content. But in the end, Yoshi isn't going to lock it away behind parcer requirements. Therefore, it is up to players creating parties to be VERY clear about what they want.

Some people treat this game like a profession, they strive to improve, and become the best of the best. However, many, like myself, play for fun with other focus. Honestly, if this game didn't have the story and crafting/gathering/housing I wouldn't even bother. I do the dungeons, raids for the clear, story and could care less about the rest.

[AmeliaVerves]

I can understand why this group wants to take ownership of this harder endgame content.

We don't want to take ownership or lock content for anyone tho, we just want to make sure people know what is asked of them when trying to compete in this hard content.
Actually there is a whole discord server and community dedicated to SHARE their information to everyone who just clicks the button to join. The Balance discord and therefore most of the community is welcoming and actually encouraging newcomers and everyone who wants to learn and improve.
Also everyone can do this in their own pace, nothing is asked of you, but to be nice and polite.

Some people treat this game like a profession, they strive to improve, and become the best of the best. However, many, like myself, play for fun with other focus. Honestly, if this game didn't have the story and crafting/gathering/housing I wouldn't even bother. I do the dungeons, raids for the clear, story and could care less about the rest.

As I said before: that's fair and I encourage it, but I also think it would be fair to give those people in the game that want to become the best the ingame utilities to do so.
Regarding the harrassment that is mentioned all the time: people calling you out in a rude manner should still be reported, basically nothing would change imo. Someone being rude because you are not doing so well? Report them, they should receive a (temp) ban.
If someone just neutrally speaks up about your performance you can either ignore them or take the advice, that's the decision to make and everyone can do as they please.

[DynnDiablos]

We don't want to take ownership or lock content for anyone tho, we just want to make sure people know what is asked of them when trying to compete in this hard content.
Actually there is a whole discord server and community dedicated to SHARE their information to everyone who just clicks the button to join. The Balance discord and therefore most of the community is welcoming and actually encouraging newcomers and everyone who wants to learn and improve.
Also everyone can do this in their own pace, nothing is asked of you, but to be nice and polite.



As I said before: that's fair and I encourage it, but I also think it would be fair to give those people in the game that want to become the best the ingame utilities to do so.
Regarding the harrassment that is mentioned all the time: people calling you out in a rude manner should still be reported, basically nothing would change imo. Someone being rude because you are not doing so well? Report them, they should receive a (temp) ban.
If someone just neutrally speaks up about your performance you can either ignore them or take the advice, that's the decision to make and everyone can do as they please.

Then what is asked and expected of players needs to fundamentally change. Savage and Extreme should be completely redesigned and content restricted in a way to cater to these needs, because how they are designed now...it isn't requiring what people who are parsing are asking for.

I get it goes beyond mechanics and placement. There are DPS thresholds and various checks that need to be completed (honestly I've never had an issue with EX-trials so this must really be for Savage and Ultimate), but the game itself isn't saying these numbers are what is important. Raid teams, PC players have created these requirements themselves and what is deemed needed for smooth completion. Therefore, as I said, you can't expect things from players who are just playing the game the way it is presented.

We are being told we have the ilvl to enter Savage or Ultimate. We are given the option to say we have never cleared it before. These are all the checks and balances the game provides. That is it. So at the end of the day, players will need to be very clear and strict in the parties they create for it or have to understand casual players will be wanting to do this content and aren't going to take kindly to being criticized because people are viewing applications they have no access to.

[AmeliaVerves]

Then what is asked and expected of players needs to fundamentally change. Savage and Extreme should be completely redesigned and content restricted in a way to cater to these needs, because how they are designed now...it isn't requiring what people who are parsing are asking for.

I think you are either generalizing too much or misunderstand what 'parsing players' are asking for.
Most of us are asking you to provide the dps needed to clear the encounter at hand (speaking for savage and ultimate), even tho the game does not provide these numbers they are still out there in the code. Hard coded enrage timers for bosses.
Do X amount of damage to the boss in y minutes.
We did not make up these requirements, the devs implemented them when designing the bosses period.

And this is why people are asking for an ingame tool to monitor if we can meet these requirements that are coded in the game. That would be perfectly fine as a starting point and maybe we will find out that it this will not lead to a purge within the playerbase. lmao

[DynnDiablos]

I think you are either generalizing too much or misunderstand what 'parsing players' are asking for.
Most of us are asking you to provide the dps needed to clear the encounter at hand (speaking for savage and ultimate), even tho the game does not provide these numbers they are still out there in the code. Hard coded enrage timers for bosses.
Do X amount of damage to the boss in y minutes.
We did not make up these requirements, the devs implemented them when designing the bosses period.

And if you are passing these DPS checks, even if you aren't performing to the level someone else would like, end of story. If you are following mechanics and passing these thresholds in the game, you shouldn't be called out because it isn't going as fast as YOU would like.

[AmeliaVerves]

And if you are passing these DPS checks, even if you aren't performing to the level someone else would like, end of story. If you are following mechanics and passing these thresholds in the game, you shouldn't be called out because it isn't going as fast as YOU would like.

I never said anything about speed tho. Just because I personally did speedkills and aimed for the best of best I don't ask others to do so.

But for savage and ultimate "just passing" is sometimes not enough bc you cannot pass in the first place. You end up smashing your head against a wall and you will just not be able to get over it, because you have no way to find out who is 'underperforming'. Even if you would like to help in a nice and polite manner, you can't because you wouldn't know.

How about instead of a party DPS meter, we could give Billy a personal meter to show how well he's performing mid fight?

This is basically an agreement a lot of us are aiming for already, so people could at least get an idea that something is off with their performance, but a lot of people don't want that either for idk, reasons I guess.

[Senn]

This is basically an agreement a lot of us are aiming for already, so people could at least get an idea that something is off with their performance, but a lot of people don't want that either for idk, reasons I guess.

Well, I'm all for having an in-game personal DPS meter that only you can see. I've been wanting one for a long time now.

[QT_Melon]

Then what is asked and expected of players needs to fundamentally change. Savage and Extreme should be completely redesigned and content restricted in a way to cater to these needs, because how they are designed now...it isn't requiring what people who are parsing are asking for.

I have to disagree a bit here. The role you signed up for is for the most part what you should be doing. DPS (Damage Per Second) or other places may refer to them as DD (Damage Dealer) by name says you need to be doing damage. If you're doing less damage than the other role assignments I do believe that's a problem. If you're just doing a bit less because not all jobs are created equal and other factors like gear is a thing, that's less of a problem for most circumstances.

The Lawns are there for you to see if you're close to the threshold of the required damage. While they ARE NOT required to get in - to say that there's nothing in FFXIV's design to show there isn't a meter for the requirement is a misnomer. It's ideal to pass it but you'll know something is majorly wrong if you can't get at least 80-90% on the Lawns/ Stone Sea Sky encounter consistently.

Yes there are other factors, but even guildhests and other parts of this game do enforce what is required of your role even if you're in a group.