5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

[ForteNightshade]

The devs don't want 100% perfection, they want classes to be viable. After that they will slowly, and I do mean slowly, tweak every class to get it to where they want it to be. And if it's like BLM from SB, once the classes are about where they want them to be, provided there's not a major rework of the class, then the class won't need much major tweaking going forward, just tweaking of anything new added to the class.

People are very much aware of this terrible practice, which is why they've straight up let jobs die. Monk and Ninja were the least played jobs by a mile prior to their respective buffs. Red Mage is already getting tossed in the grave. Frankly, I find it a little embarrassing players feel the need to stop playing their preferred jobs because the dev team ignores feedback.

[Taranok]

People are very much aware of this terrible practice, which is why they've straight up let jobs die. Monk and Ninja were the least played jobs by a mile prior to their respective buffs. Red Mage is already getting tossed in the grave. Frankly, I find it a little embarrassing players feel the need to stop playing their preferred jobs because the dev team ignores feedback.

Pick your poison. You either have a slow balancing process to tweak everything into position, or you have massive swings in DPS with FotM classes as the devs fumble about trying to balance classes that don't get balanced.

The only thing that could actually speed up this process without breaking everything would be to open up test servers for the patches ahead of time. Period. End of story. What the devs are doing is frustrating, but in terms of game theory, it is the best possible approach without opening up the floodgates to let in more data faster and allow them to balance with a wider assortment of data.

And the devs, as much as it sucks to hear this, should take player feedback, but largely ignore it outside of the most general and widespread feelings. Pleasing the playerbase will ruin the game faster than anything else, whereas taking the feedback and then working it into their vision will always be the best approach, if the feedback fits their vision.

And stop exaggerating. I'm in a group that runs with the 2 worst DPS right now, RDM and DNC, and we're doing just fine. The classes are viable, which is a hell of a lot better than how MCH launched at the start of SB, or AST during the literal entirety of HW. Slow and steady is best for the game, but nothing will stop the playerbase from acting irrationally to every tiny little thing.

[ForteNightshade]

Pick your poison. You either have a slow balancing process to tweak everything into position, or you have massive swings in DPS with FotM classes as the devs fumble about trying to balance classes that don't get balanced.

Why is it a dichotomy when players have already provided numerous ways of fixing this problem? Unlike Stormblood Machinist or Dark Knight. None of the weaker jobs need massive overhauls except Ninja and maybe Summoner. All they need is potency. How is it difficult to buff say, Burst Shot, Apex Arrow and Refulgent just to grab some random abilities? Seriously. It doesn't even matter what they buff at this point, it just needs to bring the Range and Casters within striking distance of the melee and Black Mage.

The fact it took them 16 months to do anything for Machinist is downright embarrassing. What this boils down to is if you're a Red Mage, go on strike for the next two months because that's the only chance you have of the devs panic buffing you. I really want to believe that isn't necessary because what an awful feeling it would be.

[etch666]

FFlogs will be the downfall of this game. My apple at the 95% percentile is less tasty than my orange at the 70% percentile...call this balance??

[MaelleRiou]

FFlogs will be the downfall of this game. My apple at the 95% percentile is less tasty than my orange at the 70% percentile...call this balance??

There's a simple solution for Square-Enix: Don't make every fight have an enrage timer. Enrage timers force the player base, particularly the part that does PUG raids, to care more about DPS than utility.

[ForteNightshade]

There's a simple solution for Square-Enix: Don't make every fight have an enrage timer. Enrage timers force the player base, particularly the part that does PUG raids, to care more about DPS than utility.

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

[Dogempire]

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

That and people would bring 4 red mages because dualcast raise is really broken, especially if you have mp potions.

[Kabooa]

If they took away enrage timers, you'd have Savage simply turn into a war of attrition. Just bring all three healers and make sure one of them stays alive. You'll eventually win since you can just keep raising people.

Nah, you just get rid of vuln stacks and !#%$ing murder people instead by giving the Boss -damage up- stacks for every mechanic failed.

[IruruCece]

FFlogs will be the downfall of this game. My apple at the 95% percentile is less tasty than my orange at the 70% percentile...call this balance??

get better taste buds, oranges are inferior to apples

It's a liiiiiiiittle early to start seeing threads complaining about classes not yet being perfectly balanced as all things should be when I don't think there's been a time where that has ever been the case, not to mention only days after a relatively minor set of QoL changes. But we are already seeing threads about how ranged DPS roles are going to be TOTALLY EXCLUDED from ALL CONTENT FOREVER (until the next patch maybe) so I don't think waiting and seeing is the strong suit of some folks.

[HyoMinPark]

It's a liiiiiiiittle early to start seeing threads complaining about classes not yet being perfectly balanced as all things should be when I don't think there's been a time where that has ever been the case, not to mention only days after a relatively minor set of QoL changes. But we are already seeing threads about how ranged DPS roles are going to be TOTALLY EXCLUDED from ALL CONTENT FOREVER (until the next patch maybe) so I don't think waiting and seeing is the strong suit of some folks.

While jobs may have still had imbalances in the past, they are nothing like the current imbalances between the top 3 damage dealers (MNK, BLM, DRG), and the ones at the bottom (SMN, RDM, DNC, BRD, MCH). There are anywhere from 1,000 rDPS to 2,000 rDPS differences between the jobs with very little reason for such a large gap to exist. The balance could definitely be much better, and the only way to draw attention to it—short of simply boycotting the jobs as players did with MNK and NIN—is to make threads about it, and then hope the developers read them and take them seriously. This isn’t even to mention how SAM still deals less in terms of rDPS compared to a melee that has utility (MNK).

As for the physical ranged thread, I don’t recall anywhere in the opening post of that thread that states that the role would be “EXCLUDED from ALL CONTENT FOREVER”—just that they will start seeing exclusions in more than just Savage via the trickle down effect metas tend to have. Some of the physical ranged have already been excluded from Savage since the tier dropped—DNC being one of them. They were locked out of early Titan progression and clear runs due to their lower damage leaving less room for error in an already minimum item level setting.

With regards to “waiting and seeing”, both MCH and DRK waited the entirety of Stormblood to see changes. RDM waited until Patch 4.4 to see buffs to its potencies. WHM dealt with the defunct 4.0 Lily system the entire expansion, despite the 100+ page threads on here warning the developers that it was a poor mechanic since the Stormblood media tour. Given these precedents, simply “waiting and seeing” doesn’t always seem to work.