5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

[Kitfox]

I think Raise tax on RDM and SMN should be completely removed along with their Raise abilities. Instead, SE should implement Raise in an item form like Phoenix Down. Give it a good recast like 10 mins and a cast time of 8s like regular Raise. That would allow the jobs to be balanced solely around their dps and raid buffs while also allowing DPS classes to raise in a pinch when healers can't afford the time or mp to do it.

Nobody wants their dps to be hamstrung by utility they won't even use during clean runs.

[Cetonis]

I think Raise tax on RDM and SMN should be completely removed along with their Raise abilities. Instead, SE should implement Raise in an item form like Phoenix Down. Give it a good recast like 10 mins and a cast time of 8s like regular Raise. That would allow the jobs to be balanced solely around their dps and raid buffs while also allowing DPS classes to raise in a pinch when healers can't afford the time or mp to do it.

Nobody wants their dps to be hamstrung by utility they won't even use during clean runs.

Having Phoenix Downs be an actual relevant item in the game would be a very Final Fantasy thing too. I guess you could have people fighting over who's going to use theirs, but it needn't be consumable even, really.

[waterboytkd]

I think Raise tax on RDM and SMN should be completely removed along with their Raise abilities. Instead, SE should implement Raise in an item form like Phoenix Down. Give it a good recast like 10 mins and a cast time of 8s like regular Raise. That would allow the jobs to be balanced solely around their dps and raid buffs while also allowing DPS classes to raise in a pinch when healers can't afford the time or mp to do it.

Nobody wants their dps to be hamstrung by utility they won't even use during clean runs.

Having Phoenix Downs be an actual relevant item in the game would be a very Final Fantasy thing too. I guess you could have people fighting over who's going to use theirs, but it needn't be consumable even, really.

I think these two posts are really good. Giving everyone a reusable phoenix down isn't going to break raids (most likely) because hard casting raises is brutal, and the weakness debuff is backbreaking in savage content.

And suffering a dps tax for an ability that gives zero value if everything goes according to plan? That feels really bad.

[Kieren-Dohla]

I think Raise tax on RDM and SMN should be completely removed along with their Raise abilities. Instead, SE should implement Raise in an item form like Phoenix Down. Give it a good recast like 10 mins and a cast time of 8s like regular Raise. That would allow the jobs to be balanced solely around their dps and raid buffs while also allowing DPS classes to raise in a pinch when healers can't afford the time or mp to do it.

Nobody wants their dps to be hamstrung by utility they won't even use during clean runs.

Don't take away my SMN Raise ability. Do you even main SMN? I've had enough abilities taken away and pets so fundamentally restructured it such. No more tanking with Titan egi in the overworld when solo etc. Enough has been done to my main as it is with abilities I have since 2013 being taken away. Raise is core to me for SMN and I'm sure it is with a lot of SMNs. And suddenly replacing it with an item? That item would have zero mp cost. Why would healers then even use their raise spell? So then you'd suggest because of a change with Phoenix down you'd take away raise from healers. A healer with out raise!?

[Kitfox]

Don't take away my SMN Raise ability. Do you even main SMN? I've had enough abilities taken away and pets so fundamentally restructured it such. No more tanking with Titan egi in the overworld when solo etc. Enough has been done to my main as it is with abilities I have since 2013 being taken away. Raise is core to me for SMN and I'm sure it is with a lot of SMNs. And suddenly replacing it with an item? That item would have zero mp cost. Why would healers then even use their raise spell? So then you'd suggest because of a change with Phoenix down you'd take away raise from healers. A healer with out raise!?

No, I don't main SMN, but I did clear UCOB and UWU with it. I don't think you can have raise and do competitive dps with the way things are balanced currently and I'd rather have the dps if my group's caster wants to switch roles with me. I don't think Raise is in any shape or form core of the SMN or RDM identity and taking it out of the dps balancing picture would make SMN and RDM dps more competitive.

Healers would still use Raise. You can't Swift Cast items and nobody wants to sit through 8 second hardcasts if they don't have to. With a 10 minute cooldown you would quickly run out of item raises with multiple deaths and would have to use regular ones. But how often do you really see healers hardcast Raises anyway? Almost never, so they would still use their Swift Raises as normal.

[Kieren-Dohla]

No, I don't main SMN, but I did clear UCOB and UWU with it. I don't think you can have raise and do competitive dps with the way things are balanced currently and I'd rather have the dps if my group's caster wants to switch roles with me. I don't think Raise is in any shape or form core of the SMN or RDM identity and taking it out of the dps balancing picture would make SMN and RDM dps more competitive.

Healers would still use Raise. You can't Swift Cast items and nobody wants to sit through 8 second hardcasts if they don't have to. With a 10 minute cooldown you would quickly run out of item raises with multiple deaths and would have to use regular ones. But how often do you really see healers hardcast Raises anyway? Almost never, so they would still use their Swift Raises as normal.

Jobs can be more interesting to play if they have some even minor support vs worrying about dps for savage which I don't even do. Otherwise we can just strip everything down, have the same basic structure, kept the jobs 100% focused on their main purpose and have them be boring.

[Kitfox]

Jobs can be more interesting to play if they have some even minor support vs worrying about dps for savage which I don't even do. Otherwise we can just strip everything down, have the same basic structure, kept the jobs 100% focused on their main purpose and have them be boring.

By that logic, wouldn't item based raise make more jobs interesting to play by adding an extra support function to all of them? SMN/RDM wouldn't lose their ability to raise either, it would just switch from a spell to an item cast and couldn't be swifted. All while allowing better rdps balancing. You don't really need support abilities in specific to have unique and interesting classes. At least all the ranged classes and casters play very differently in my opinion, just by the virtue of differences in their rotations.

[Dogempire]

By that logic, wouldn't item based raise make more jobs interesting to play by adding an extra support function to all of them? SMN/RDM wouldn't lose their ability to raise either, it would just switch from a spell to an item cast and couldn't be swifted. All while allowing better rdps balancing. You don't really need support abilities in specific to have unique and interesting classes. At least all the ranged classes and casters play very differently in my opinion, just by the virtue of differences in their rotations.

It would be pretty cool if they made phoenix downs stackable and made the cast time 3s but made the recast time say 10 mins so that everyone has a raise but it can't be spammed.