5.08 Patch - DPS still not balanced.

**Katie_Kitty** · 08-31-2019 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by AikenDrum

What is the raise tax even? I mean, in actual numbers? Say, default raise potential is 2/min, bringing smn over blm increases it to 3/min with the tax of 1300 dps; rdm can double smn raises - shouldn't its tax then be 2600 dps? But it's only 200 more than smn. Why simply having more than 2 raises/min has such huge tax, and then actual raising potential over that number has almost no effect on dps? This doesn't make much sense.

It doesn't make sense because that's not how it works. Raise tax is a meme and not actually thought about that deeply to begin with. The general idea is just that jobs with utility should do less raw DPS than jobs without it, otherwise there's no justification for bringing selfish jobs over utility jobs. That's reasonable and I don't think anyone disagrees with it. The problem is that the current imbalance goes well beyond what is reasonable and furthermore two of the strongest threee DPS jobs actually do provide utility as well (DRG and MNK)

**Taranok** · 08-31-2019 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

People are very much aware of this terrible practice, which is why they've straight up let jobs die. Monk and Ninja were the least played jobs by a mile prior to their respective buffs. Red Mage is already getting tossed in the grave. Frankly, I find it a little embarrassing players feel the need to stop playing their preferred jobs because the dev team ignores feedback.

Pick your poison. You either have a slow balancing process to tweak everything into position, or you have massive swings in DPS with FotM classes as the devs fumble about trying to balance classes that don't get balanced.

The only thing that could actually speed up this process without breaking everything would be to open up test servers for the patches ahead of time. Period. End of story. What the devs are doing is frustrating, but in terms of game theory, it is the best possible approach without opening up the floodgates to let in more data faster and allow them to balance with a wider assortment of data.

And the devs, as much as it sucks to hear this, should take player feedback, but largely ignore it outside of the most general and widespread feelings. Pleasing the playerbase will ruin the game faster than anything else, whereas taking the feedback and then working it into their vision will always be the best approach, if the feedback fits their vision.

And stop exaggerating. I'm in a group that runs with the 2 worst DPS right now, RDM and DNC, and we're doing just fine. The classes are viable, which is a hell of a lot better than how MCH launched at the start of SB, or AST during the literal entirety of HW. Slow and steady is best for the game, but nothing will stop the playerbase from acting irrationally to every tiny little thing.

**Warkupo** · 08-31-2019 05:44 PM

It's not wrong to point out the philosophy or why some jobs have higher DPS than other jobs, but if we're going for balance we should still see logs where they all have similar DPS to each other. Until that happens the balance is off, even if the design philosophy is being upheld.

There's a spot where ranged DPS' up-time should match with melee DPS need to disengage. It doesn't seem as if we are there yet.

I think RDM suffers too much from having the team utility that it has, even though it already has to sacrifice its DPS to utilize that utility. It feels like we get punished twice, really. I'd really hate to see RDM lose that utility as its' a major point for why I enjoy them, and instead I'd rather see other DPS gain similar utility options.

**SaitoHikari** · 08-31-2019 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Akiudo

a 30 percentile monk literally outdps's a 90 percentile dancer, obviously thats balanced cause its sooo hard to stay in melee range

Also a monk can die and more likely than not still contribute more rdps than a member of the bottom five DPS classes that didn't die.

When the gap is so wide that this happens, you KNOW the balance is absolutely busted. There is no way a game should be trying to call itself balanced when crap like that is possible, because the mere existence of such a concept means that certain classes literally act as a buffer that lets your team afford a mistake and still beat enrage. It's absolutely unacceptable, and it raises questions about what kind of damage/party setup that raids are designed around. Make the gap too wide, and we'll start seeing fights where it's straight up not possible for certain party comps to clear unless the party is performing at a collective 90+ percentile level.

**ForteNightshade** · 08-31-2019 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Taranok

Pick your poison. You either have a slow balancing process to tweak everything into position, or you have massive swings in DPS with FotM classes as the devs fumble about trying to balance classes that don't get balanced.

Why is it a dichotomy when players have already provided numerous ways of fixing this problem? Unlike Stormblood Machinist or Dark Knight. None of the weaker jobs need massive overhauls except Ninja and maybe Summoner. All they need is potency. How is it difficult to buff say, Burst Shot, Apex Arrow and Refulgent just to grab some random abilities? Seriously. It doesn't even matter what they buff at this point, it just needs to bring the Range and Casters within striking distance of the melee and Black Mage.

The fact it took them 16 months to do anything for Machinist is downright embarrassing. What this boils down to is if you're a Red Mage, go on strike for the next two months because that's the only chance you have of the devs panic buffing you. I really want to believe that isn't necessary because what an awful feeling it would be.

**etch666** · 08-31-2019 07:25 PM