So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[MPK]

They absolutely are not tuned around minimum ilvl.

You couldnt design later savage floors around having minimum ilvl, in fact, as you would be overwhelmingly likely to have multiple savage pieces from earlier tiers by the time you could access them (and they dont scale in terms of min ilvl like that), meaning they would already be undertuned before you could even see the fight for the first time.

Well then what is the assumed ilevel? There's a reason why min ilevel exists if not they why even bother having something so arbitrary?

[HyoMinPark]

Well then what is the assumed ilevel? There's a reason why min ilevel exists if not they why even bother having something so arbitrary?

I believe the minimum item level is more so a “recommendation” of what would be ideal to have as the absolute minimum going into the content. But I don’t think that the developers use it as a hard-and-fast metric for balance.

I’d wager that the presumed item level for something like E4S would be a few item levels above the minimum i450 required for entry. I don’t know if they’d push it quite to i460...however, it’s possible that they assume that’s around the item level most players would have once they reached the content. Because, let’s face it: not every raider goes for Week 1 clears, when clearing would be the most challenging. And not every player can push the damage required for minimum item level clears.

The example you gave falls under the category of "a time and place for criticism." I'm not saying that you shouldn't call out and kick players who are AFK in group PvP. I'm saying that if Billy queues up for leveling roulette at level 30 and doesn't notice that his auto-gear recommender button threw on cloth pants because his metal pants are still level 10, then maybe you should cut him a little slack as long as bosses are being successfully cleared.

While the lower level content has become more and more trivial as the years have passed, I think the undergearing issues you have presented here would also fall under your “a time and place for criticism” criterion. If you enter, for example, Stone Vigil with level 30 DoM pants on your tank because your only other tank-specific pants are level 10, I think it’s warranted that you receive some criticism for that because it’s straight gear neglect. I’m not saying people are allowed to suddenly cuss you out for it, but they are more than within their right to call you out for gear neglect. While I know a lot of people like to use the “but we still cleared” reasoning for defending poor gear, I don’t really like that excuse. Yeah, maybe you did clear: but the healer had to work harder to keep you alive because you neglected your gear.

And Stone Vigil is also one of the ARR dungeons that can’t be entirely facerolled—it still hurts quite a bit.

If it was posted in chat, then it was potentially harassment, unintended or not. Why didn't he PM the numbers to the player who asked for them?

I’m sorry, how it is harassment to tell someone who willingly asked for their numbers their numbers? Please explain your logic here.

[Ronduwil]

I’m sorry, how it is harassment to tell someone who willingly asked for their numbers their numbers? Please explain your logic here.

I explicitly said that those numbers should have been communicated to the player who willing asked for their numbers via PM (personal message). The harassment was in broadcasting them to the entire chat. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[HyoMinPark]

I explicitly said that those numbers should have been communicated to the player who willing asked for their numbers via PM (personal message). The harassment was in broadcasting them to the entire chat. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Again, how is that harassment? If the person asks for their numbers, they lose the right to be offended by what they see, if I'm being honest. As for PMs, there is no PM system in this game aside from /tell. I think it's important to note that you cannot send cross-server /tells without being on an individual's friend's list first, and this is a relatively new feature. Before, you had to be on the same server as the person to /tell them; even when cross-world PF first became a thing in Patch 3.4.

Sorry, your reasoning still falls flat here, in my opinion. Person A asked for their numbers, and Person A cannot choose to suddenly be offended or "feel harassed" if Person B gives them what they requested. Especially if it wasn't asked to be given to them in a private manner, and these requests generally aren't (in my experience, people tend to say "Was anyone parsing that? How did I do?" - most parties are silent because of what I mentioned in the post you replied to being likely to happen).

The report wasn't likely to have come from the person requesting their numbers, anyways. It was more likely to have come from a Person C, who got up in arms because "omg parser bad" and decided to report despite no actual harassment occurring. There are individuals like that out there.

Eh, not worth it. Person could be baiting plus you will always have those logs if the GM decides to check your history. Just don't post about it AT ALL in-game. Whether you have good intentions or not.

I agree that it's not worth it to do it at all, but some people think they're being helpful or nice providing what another asked for. I am just disagreeing with Ronduwil's notion that posting requested numbers = harassment. He'd have a case if he were talking about someone who didn't request their performance and was having it posted without their permission, but I don't think he has much of one with regards to someone who explicitly asked "How did I do".

[Ronduwil]

Again, how is that harassment? If the person asks for their numbers, they lose the right to be offended by what they see, if I'm being honest.

Again, the harassment is in sending the numbers to the entire chat. That includes the one guy who asked for them and 7-23 players who didn't ask for them. I'm 99% certain that the guy who asked for the logs isn't the one who reported.

[HyoMinPark]

Again, the harassment is in sending the numbers to the entire chat. That includes the one guy who asked for them and 7-23 players who didn't ask for them. I'm 99% certain that the guy who asked for the logs isn't the one who reported.

If only the number of the person who asked is posted, how is that harassment? No one else’s numbers are posted. Are they going to feel harassed by another’s performance? Generally, only the number of the player who requests the number is posted. Rarely are the numbers of everyone laid out chat.

Person A: Was anyone parsing? How did I do?
Person B: You did [number].

That is how these exchanges usually occur when they do happen. So, again: is Person C/D/E/F/G/H going to be offended by Person A’s numbers? No. The people who report exchanges like this do so because of the “omg parser bad” mentality.

[Melichoir]

If only the number of the person who asked is posted, how is that harassment? No one else’s numbers are posted. Are they going to feel harassed by another’s performance? Generally, only the number of the player who requests the number is posted. Rarely are the numbers of everyone laid out chat.

Person A: Was anyone parsing? How did I do?
Person B: You did [number].

That is how these exchanges usually occur when they do happen. So, again: is Person C/D/E/F/G/H going to be offended by Person A’s numbers? No. The people who report exchanges like this do so because of the “omg parser bad” mentality.

The issue, unfortunately, becomes when player C starts thinking "If Player B knows Player As numbers, then they know mine. And I did not give them permission for that/Theyre secretly judging me and any negativity I receive from them is because of the parser".

[Ronduwil]

Person A: Was anyone parsing? How did I do?
Person B: You did [number].

That is how these exchanges usually occur when they do happen. So, again: is Person C/D/E/F/G/H going to be offended by Person A’s numbers? No. The people who report exchanges like this do so because of the “omg parser bad” mentality.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm used to using Recount for WoW, which dumps the entire party's DPS at one time. I wan't aware that the addon used for FFXIV only dumps a person at a time.

[Callinon]

Again, the harassment is in sending the numbers to the entire chat. That includes the one guy who asked for them and 7-23 players who didn't ask for them. I'm 99% certain that the guy who asked for the logs isn't the one who reported.

You're aware tells can't be sent while in a duty right? Like, at all?

[Daibunnie]

Again, the harassment is in sending the numbers to the entire chat. That includes the one guy who asked for them and 7-23 players who didn't ask for them. I'm 99% certain that the guy who asked for the logs isn't the one who reported.

Imagine being offended over your party being able to see how much you're contributing to the raid that you have to report someone for "harassment." In normal content, most people don't even parse, but it's very easy to tell when someone is slacking.