So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Forever_Learning]

This thread has many posts discussing how parses can be good for self-improvement ... among numerous posts discussing how you can use parses to judge other people’s performance.

Im largely against parses due to the mentality they create. Tanks and healers judged on their DPS as opposed to how they play their main roles, while people complain dancer is a bad job because parsers dont show the impact that non-damage actions can contribute.

I generally find the negative outweighs the positive

[Pharone]

I absolutely hate damage meters because it takes the fun out of playing the game. Instead of just playing the game and having fun, people are always fixated on the DPS and HPS.

Just play the game, and have fun already.

[Lium]

I absolutely hate damage meters because it takes the fun out of playing the game. Instead of just playing the game and having fun, people are always fixated on the DPS and HPS.

Just play the game, and have fun already.

This is my thinking. I'm actually all for damage meters in savage content and extreme content. Ya know, content where you absolutely have to know your job inside and out and if you mess up, it could mean a raid wipe. Any kind of high end content I think meters are helpful, and yes, you should call out someone for not doing enough damage when you're playing content like that.

My beef with damage meters is in normal content. Especially a random leveling dungeon you get in DF. That's where meters are used to grief, and you start seeing DPS do stupid stuff, like tunneling on boss fights, running ahead of the tank to YOLO pull packs of mobs and start AoEing wildly so that they can be #1 on the meter. And people getting kicked for crappy damage. In a normal dungeon.

New players are often intimidated and sometimes can get flamed for low damage even though they are just learning. Damage meters were seriously one of the primary reasons the WoW community was so terrible. Square Enix is right to ban them.

[NekoNova]

This is my thinking. I'm actually all for damage meters in savage content and extreme content. Ya know, content where you absolutely have to know your job inside and out and if you mess up, it could mean a raid wipe. Any kind of high end content I think meters are helpful, and yes, you should call out someone for not doing enough damage when you're playing content like that.

My beef with damage meters is in normal content. Especially a random leveling dungeon you get in DF. That's where meters are used to grief, and you start seeing DPS do stupid stuff, like tunneling on boss fights, running ahead of the tank to YOLO pull packs of mobs and start AoEing wildly so that they can be #1 on the meter. And people getting kicked for crappy damage. In a normal dungeon.

New players are often intimidated and sometimes can get flamed for low damage even though they are just learning. Damage meters were seriously one of the primary reasons the WoW community was so terrible. Square Enix is right to ban them.

Decent players don't use damage meters in normal content.
You have to be a real special snowflake to hold someone accountable for "low dps" in a normal trial or dungeon.
You can clear those placed blind-folded and still kill everything without trouble.


Damage meters are important in Extreme trials to some extend, and savage raids.
Because there performance matters to simply beat the enrage mechanics of each encounter. You don't have infinite time to kill the boss.
So if you're not producing enough damage (even with everyone alive 100%) you are not going to kill it.
I'm by no means a pro when it comes to playing DPS, but I do try my best to not be a burden to my FC when we raid.
They have no obligation to take me along in savage content with my performance, especially since they already cleared it and pull deep purple to orange numbers.


But you know what?
I'm happy to share my crappy parses with them.
Cause they can point out what I'm doing wrong, and what I need to change.
And over the past weeks I've improved from a measly 7k DPS to a stable 9k DPS by simply listening to their input and practising it.

[HyoMinPark]

New players are often intimidated and sometimes can get flamed for low damage even though they are just learning. Damage meters were seriously one of the primary reasons the WoW community was so terrible. Square Enix is right to ban them.

I keep seeing people say this... but they offer no proof that it actually occurs "as often" as they like to claim that it does. My proof is an anecdote, but I've encountered 1 instance of parser shaming in almost 4 years. And it wasn't in a dungeon - it was in Zurvan EX back when that was the relevant EX in HW.

[Melichoir]

I keep seeing people say this... but they offer no proof that it actually occurs "as often" as they like to claim that it does. My proof is an anecdote, but I've encountered 1 instance of parser shaming in almost 4 years. And it wasn't in a dungeon - it was in Zurvan EX back when that was the relevant EX in HW.

Im of the same mindset when it comes to the claims. I dont see the proof of it being so widespread. Even more so because I actually have low level alts that I just derp around with cause I like the story and sometimes want to feel that little bit of challange of doing a dungeon fresh with grey gear. In all cases, I havent seen someone flipping their crap in dungeons at new players over damage. Ive seen healers tell DPS or Tanks not to stand in the pancakes, and when they do, they stop healing them. Ive seen DPS get made at healers or Tanks for messing wtih the boss, Ive seen tanks tell DPS to stop being so gung ho and wait for them to get enmity. Seen all that, but havent seen the "Youre doing crappy DPS and you should feel bad" rage outs in DF for dungeons.

When I have seen people talk about damage, its in EX modes and its almost always after someone is being a smartass about something and thinking theyre hot stuff when theyre not. Even then, its a fairly rare occurrence.

As Ive mentioned here or in another thread with a similar issue, the problem is more likely a perception issue. A person does encounter said bad behavior as a one off, and goes to here or Reddit to vent or complain, only to be told by other people who have had similar one offs that its happened to them. They then get the perception that this is a common issue happening to a lot of people all the time, rather than isolated incidents that occur with little to no frequency. People only need to step back and think "How often have I personally seen it and how does that compare to how often I dont see it." and it quickly becomes clear that you probably encounter that level of stupid parser rage once every few hundred or more runs in content.

[Enla]

I keep seeing people say this... but they offer no proof that it actually occurs "as often" as they like to claim that it does. My proof is an anecdote, but I've encountered 1 instance of parser shaming in almost 4 years. And it wasn't in a dungeon - it was in Zurvan EX back when that was the relevant EX in HW.

I've only seen it happen once as well, and it was a hilarious incident where someone tried to shame me back in ARR for daring to help with rez duties as a SMN. When, you know, half the party was dead and the single healer was struggling during Garuda EX. Other than that? Haven't seen it happen. I have heard my friends comment on people's numbers in passing while in discord with them, but no one actually goes into the chat and shames people.

[Lium]

I keep seeing people say this... but they offer no proof that it actually occurs "as often" as they like to claim that it does. My proof is an anecdote, but I've encountered 1 instance of parser shaming in almost 4 years. And it wasn't in a dungeon - it was in Zurvan EX back when that was the relevant EX in HW.

I should have clarified, that was my experience in WoW back when I used to play, where they had damage meters. And yes, on the server I played on back then (Tichondrius) it happened quite a bit.

FFXIV, where they don't have damage meters, it's not that big of an issue. And I'd like to keep it that way.

[MPK]

This thread has many posts discussing how parses can be good for self-improvement ... among numerous posts discussing how you can use parses to judge other people’s performance.

Im largely against parses due to the mentality they create. Tanks and healers judged on their DPS as opposed to how they play their main roles, while people complain dancer is a bad job because parsers dont show the impact that non-damage actions can contribute.

I generally find the negative outweighs the positive

How do you think tanks and healers should be playing? Should tanks just sit there and use mitigation and should healers just sit and wait and use their healing? The DPS checks in savage are kinda rough right now if healers and tanks don't contribute. Regarding your statement about Dancer DPS, fflogs calculates raid DPS now which shows what dancers actually contribute and overall it's still pretty low.

I don't parse myself, but I'm glad there are people out there that upload parses since I can use websites like xivanalysis that can analyze my logs and give me pointers on how to improve.

It's also great to see how bad SE's balance team is.

[Granyala]

I don't parse myself, but I'm glad there are people out there that upload parses since I can use websites like xivanalysis that can analyze my logs and give me pointers on how to improve.

That's an interesting one. Still pretty rough for WHM but interesting.

Don't really get the "weaving" thing it harps on about to be honest.