5.0 Job change wishlist

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Can the WHM people stop moaning in every single thread? Seriously... There's a bunch of threads to discuss about WHM, like this one http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-Lily-II-now
Please go there and stop messing around other threads that has nothing to do with WHM like this one.
Thank you very much.

We're not complaining in every thread. This is a thread asking for what we wanted, I mentioned the lily system. If debates like this happen just over the mere mention of lilies though, I guess that tells you what we think of it.

[Pomelo]

I want all jobs to get a medicate skill.

Cos everybody knows this girl writing huge essays of nonsense is clearly off her meds.

[Pyro2hell3]

for monk gives us a ranged attack like all the other melee dps just do something with stances we still spend pretty much all of our time in fists of fire

[Trunks]

However the first strategy is what SE has indicated is the correct strategy, and thus they've devised the gauges to reflect that

Okay let's get back on topic with the saintlike generosity of assuming you're correct.

WHM: In 5.0 I'd like them to make this be a Job that's not destined by design to utterly suck for people who press all of their buttons instead of half of them.

[Eloah]

I really need to revisit that 5.0 spreadsheet I was making to share. Sadly life got in the way. but maybe I'll post what I have so people can see what could be, XD

[Aluja89]

I'd like more branching jobs, like SCH/SMN. I think it's a wasted opportunity for them not to pursue this, as it's easier than creating a brand new job.

Pugilist>Tank Monk
Archer>Priest(Rosa FF4)
Lancer>Tank Dragoon, with a equippable dragon on the off hand.
Marauder>Berserker(DPS)

Stuff like that.

[KisaiTenshi]

Command mission healers are Conjurers...........................they don't even have lillies and you do realize Conjurer's only have 4 healing spells right? Cure, Cure II, Medica, and Medica II. So of course they will use Cure II to direct heal? They don't have Regen, Tetra, Assize, Asylum, Bene, or Plenary.

Please actually play a command mission before trying to explain how they work, because clearly you don't. The healers in the command missions have Medica II at ALL levels. They don't use it until the party has taken damage, which is the thing I've being saying and have not suggested they should be casting anything else. Rather the command missions illustrate how the developers think players should be healing as another example of why the WHM's gauge is also tuned to act on Cure and Confession stacks are from Party-Healing Medica/Medica II/Cure III and not from DPS and don't have any bearing on DPS, because you only get the Lily and Confession stacks from not overhealing. If you're playing the game by overhealing using HoT's , especially on easy content, then you of course aren't going to be able to make use of these gauges and don't benefit them because you're overhealing.

If you are just going to reply to people with your usual tangents that have nothing to do with what they asked you then why bother to reply at all? Like I've said many many times before you always do this when confronted with something you can't argue.

Because the not-nice people on the forum don't want to have a discussion, they want a fight, and when presented with information that challenges their world view, the put their fingers in their ears and instead throw insults instead.

Tangents, tangents, and more tangents of irrelevant stuff. Command mission CNJ's have nothing to do with raid healing or even end game healing for that matter for extremely obvious reasons. MSQ is level 50 where you don't even have anything to use Lillies on until level 52. None of this is end game healing.

What does level 50 MSQ healing and conjurer command mission healing have to do with level 60+ healing???

Because that is how SE and Yoshi-P has designed the healing. You don't throw away half your toolkit when you turn level 50. Look at the kind of comments people keep snarking out. "Oh the lily system is useless, because nobody uses cure" , and when I say I do, you're like "then you suck" rather than "oh well how do you get past X, when I have to spam so many HoT's and oCD's to get past it?"

What SE or Yoshida think has nothing to do with this topic.

Just because the devs design something one way or another doesn't mean the community has to smile and accept anything they do. If people want to ask for changes to lillies then they can do that.

The way SE and Yoshi-P sees it has everything to do with the topic see it says "Job change wishlist" not "changes I don't want SE to make, please don't read". The person who first posted about lilies in this thread, also posts nothing but "the lilies suck" in every post they make, so they want the job to change to appease a small portion of players who aren't playing the job correctly in the first place.

Trying to argue about what someone else said they want to see changed about lillies just because YOU personally think they are okay is useless in the context of this thread.

This thread is asking for changes people want to see for 5.0. These posters don't care what you think about it or how the devs designed it. They are listing changes they personally want to see for whatever reason they want it.

Just so you know they could change lillies easily where the less optimized play style of using a lot of Cure I/II AND the more optimized play style of using regens effectively to make room for more DPS can both benefit from Lillies. So what is your problem with this? You'll still be able to play your less optimized style.



You don't even understand the raid healer meta

Oh, I know what the raid healer meta is, is the meta bad players learn from raiders and then try to use on every piece of content because it gives them the max deeps. s/ , you know on content that isn't bloody contest. The same players complain about having nothing to do because they are making it so they have nothing to do. The same players complain about content when it's not even 3 days old because they already sucked the fun out of it with a parser.

There have never been two ways to play White Mage. It functions precisely the same as every healer; you maximize the number of oGCD and Regen ticks you can exploit to avoid casting heals as much as possible. The fact you cite "raider meta" only to subsequently claim they overheal demonstrates your profound lack of understanding. Good raid healers have little overhealing because they allow HoT to tick people up. Cure II spam, meanwhile, is an absolute waste of your MP which can be better spent on Stone IV or Aero II/III. Fishing for free Cures is even worse due to you using your least efficient heal. The odds are staggeringly low you will ever actually benefit from that, especially when White Mage has far superior options at its disposal. For example sake...

Cure I: 10,441
Regen: 3600-3800 range per tick

Even at the lowest estimation, that Regen will tick for 25,200 at the cost of only 240 more MP. Unless the tank needs immediate HP, Regen is VASTLY better than Cure I and even Cure II. Granted, the latter at least has more value.

Regardless, what the hell qualifications do you have to speak on "Raider meta?" You aren't a raider, do not even try to optimize, spent the better part of pre-Stormblood being laughed off the forums following your insistence White Mage heals in a manner it simply doesn't and yet you have the audacity to critique people who have not only theorycrafted healers but have Ultimate clears under their belts? At least you have White Mage leveled this time.

Hmm, I wonder who has a better understanding of White Mage? Miss Kisai who has never dabbled in anything harder than a dungeon or Entropy's White Mage who used Cure I once in their clear of Ultimate.

Hmm I wonder who has a better understanding of White Mage, Yoshi-P and the dev team who plays this way I've pointed out, or 4% of the player base who who raids with parsers then complains about healers being boring and complains that content is boring.

Why on earth would the developers ever listen to the raiders who aren't playing the content correctly in the first place, and use parser tools as a crutch? There is no way in hell that the developers can or even should listen to the people using the parsers, because what the parser users are asking for is for content to be nothing but DPS checks that you can just stand still to maximize dps with because your ego will be bruised if you don't get some high marks on a third party site using a parser that only guesses how HoT's and DoT's work to begin with. The parser also guesses how long combat is, thus very trivial things will have large differences.

So~ When are you going to post a video of Swallow's Compass / Hell's Lid / Fractual Continuum (Hard) so you can show us how you play WHM properly? I'd love to review that thoroughly like I did in the past with a previous video.

In all seriousness, the Lily system needs rework because the habits it teaches you effectively tells you to ignore optimizing 95% of the rest of your kit. If we're supposed to only use Tetra / Assize / Asylum when we have three lilies, we'll probably only end up using them one time each during the course of a raid encounter.

The CD reduction on lillies mean nothing if you aren't firing the CDs on cooldown but we have trouble generating Lillies because we can only get them from using single target heal spells. How counter intuitive is that?

Why should I post a video here? So I can take the insults from you guys again and have my channel videos downvoted out of spite because none of you can be bothered to watch it for more than 7 seconds. No thanks. All that experience showed me is that maybe three people care about legitimately offering advice and everyone else is just a jerk who wants to lay in a burn.

I get through all the content I want to play on WHM if I'm collecting tomes or raid rewards.

We're not complaining in every thread. This is a thread asking for what we wanted, I mentioned the lily system. If debates like this happen just over the mere mention of lilies though, I guess that tells you what we think of it.

Which is, players who don't play the game like SE/Yoshi-P want you to, and instead play it like a green DPS, complain about it like it's a limit break gauge and they're somehow missing out on something. If you don't want to play it the way SE wants you to, you're not being forced to. But please don't pretend like the Lily gauge doesn't work, because it does. Wow look shorter CD's on the level 52-60 (the HW skills) Asylum, Assize, Divine Benison, or Tetragrammaton. Of which the lilies aren't stopping you from casting them to begin with.

What the supposedly "best" raiders do, has a detriment the rest of the player base when they're told to do things, that only are ever true when you're undergeared for the content, and is only about optimizing for speed to beat the enrage timer so you have better parses than the other players who use the same parser.

I'd really like to hear what the Japanese raider meta is because Yoshi-P and the developers obviously pay attention to them and not us, and they have larger clear rates.

Okay let's get back on topic with the saintlike generosity of assuming you're correct.

WHM: In 5.0 I'd like them to make this be a Job that's not destined by design to utterly suck for people who press all of their buttons instead of half of them.

Oh you know it's not going to end until we have a 50 page thread again. If anyone reading this decides "oh I need to lay in my sick burn" just don't. I'm not telling you you're playing the job wrong, I'm telling you SE is telling you are playing the job wrong and have not done anything to help or hinder your meta, so please leave it alone.

[Tsumdere]

*ding*ding* we have a winner. That is how SE believes players are playing it, and thus that is how it's designed. If you want to adhere to some alternative meta, go right ahead, the lilies neither help nor hinder you.

The very first thing you learn when studying game design in university - the designer is not always right (in fact a lot of the time, they are horribly wrong). Lilies are a terrible design for many, many reasons.

Anyways, some more things I have thought of that I would like.

1. An actual DoT DPS class like Necromancer.
2. More dungeons you can AoE pull. I love dungeons that you have a choice of either speedrunning (the funnest) or taking it easy. Not a fan of being forced to take it slow.
3. Extreme Dungeons.
4. This goes hand in hand with improved character creation - being able to swap animations. I would like the Hyur animations on my Roe and vice versa.

[Ghishlain]

Because the not-nice people on the forum don't want to have a discussion, they want a fight, and when presented with information that challenges their world view, the put their fingers in their ears and instead throw insults instead.

There's a lot of irony in this statement coming from you - because you are guilty of doing the exact same things when people challenge your world view on how WHM healing should function.

Why should I post a video here? So I can take the insults from you guys again and have my channel videos downvoted out of spite because none of you can be bothered to watch it for more than 7 seconds. No thanks. All that experience showed me is that maybe three people care about legitimately offering advice and everyone else is just a jerk who wants to lay in a burn.

I get through all the content I want to play on WHM if I'm collecting tomes or raid rewards.

Don't you think that's indicative of something? Even if the OF only represents a small percentage of players, a rather large percentage of these posters disagree with your opinion on several levels. Don't you know that's telling of your own opinion in the matter? Perhaps you shouldn't feel your opinion is law and everyone else who disagrees with you is a troll or looking to fight as all that does it make you look worse.

Take that from someone who legitimately watched your entire 55+ minute Antitower and gave a thorough opinion on everything I thought you both right and wrong.

And yes, I did watch all 55+ minutes of it.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Because the not-nice people on the forum don't want to have a discussion.

Well when you say stupid stuff like

If you don't always have three lilies, you are playing the job wrong.

as a flat out statement, expect to be corrected. You can play however you like, but running around talking about how the Lily system is perfectly fine when a good majority of WHMs agree that it's just eating up screen space with how useless it is, and then going on to say anyone who doesn't agree is a bad WHM....expect people to challenge your opinion.

Also you keep mentioning it, but just because SE made it this way doesn't mean it's the way it should be.

Yoshi and his teams aren't gods, and frankly, they can do some pretty stupid things at times. The lily system is one of those stupid moments that even they seem to want to move away from seeing as Divine Bension is not even tied to it anymore. This is definitely one of those cases where the devs dropped the ball and, even if their intentions were to get people more into the "pure healer" identity, need to backpedal with this design. It's flawed and doesn't work in parallel with how most healers actually play the game.