Confused about people's obsession with open world raids/dungeons.

[lackofwords]

They suck. You just want to zerg or something? I'm not sure I understand why open world is better.

It really sucks waiting on another party or stealing from another party the boss in U'Ghamaro Mines. There is nothing good or fair about open world. And please don't tell me because you want to watch. Wait for it to show on youtube.

No more open world dungeons please, if you want, put a roaming boss, that's fine, but not an entire dungeon. I'm fighting dudes for coffers all day that's annoying. Infact, do us all a favour and make the strongholds instanced!

Although I understand your disapproval of "Open World Raids/Dungeons", it doesn't mean other people don't enjoy them. Nor is it a reasonable request to stop all development of them just because it's not "fair".

Not every aspect of the game should be a completely "fair" playing field. Just take a look at NM claims. If you have longer range, you already have an edge against someone who has to run up to the NM to claim it. If you have more people in your party to cover the field, that also gives you an edge over a single player who is trying to camp out an NM.

Remember the Hunter's Moon: The Curse of Dalamud (09/02/2011)
Remember on the first few days the marmots spawning points were camped heavily, limiting participation of anyone who wanted to solo for loot a very low chance of claiming. Although as the event drew on, less people were interested or already claimed the necessary loot. Thus, this allowed people to eventually solo.

Lastly, the respawn rates for the NMs in open dungeons is within a few minutes. (except the conditional NMs). The respawn rates for chest/coffers is zero, as long as you have a key you can open them as many times as you want. So I'm not even sure what are you referring to when saying "fighting dudes for coffers all day".

[patch1.19] Patch 1.19 Notes

[dev1142] Locked treasure chests can now be found in the following areas:

• Shposhae
• U'Ghamaro Mines
• Zahar'ak

These chests can only be opened if a player possesses the proper key.
Keys can only be used once, but chests will be refilled after every emptying. Keys can be obtained in several different ways, such as by defeating enemies or fulfilling certain objectives on quests. Only one type of each key can be carried at a time. Treasure chest content varies by lock type, with chests locked using rare keys often containing the best loot.

[Shneibel]

They suck. You just want to zerg or something? I'm not sure I understand why open world is better.

It really sucks waiting on another party or stealing from another party the boss in U'Ghamaro Mines. There is nothing good or fair about open world. And please don't tell me because you want to watch. Wait for it to show on youtube.

No more open world dungeons please, if you want, put a roaming boss, that's fine, but not an entire dungeon. I'm fighting dudes for coffers all day that's annoying. Infact, do us all a favour and make the strongholds instanced!

1 word:

Competition


ps: hater is gonna hate, start the thread in a friendly open next time

[Venion]

I don't know how I feel about an open world raid, but I do want some open world dungeons, of course, my definition might differ from other people.

When I think of an open world dungeon, my thoughts go back to zones from Final Fantasy XI like Garlaige Citadel, Crawler's Nest, King Ranperre's Tomb, Delkfutt's Tower, and many other places, even the Beastmen zones like Davoi. We "sort" of have places like them now, but they're pretty lackluster.

These open world dungeons were just like any other zone really, except they had quite a few quests/missions attached to them that would bring you into their depths or some other lure to bring you in, like having to run through Crawler's Nest to get onto a certain ledge in Rolanberry Fields.

I personally don't want any open world dungeons akin to Dzemael Darkhold, but I do want some open world zones that are designed with that "dungeon feel"

[Coglin]

With the system they have in place now, I like open world bosses. I enjoy fights that require more then 8 players. Not to say I dislike the dungeons, but as of now they are some what limiting. Many MMOs have had successfull usage of both combined. Add in open world bosses that are raid multi group fights that are quest spawned (and spawnable in more then one location to prevent bottelnecking) and you can have alot of end game diversity.

[Delsus]

If all content is instanced, all the cities are are glorified lobbies for the content, there will be no comunity, just your linkshell and you have no reason to talk to anyone else unless you join a pickup in the glorified lobby and you will probably never speak to those people again.

Open world content allows other people to see how you fight for tips, it allows you to teach people who are struggling, it makes the world seem more real and (oh god its the "i" word again) immersive, in FFXI there was nothing better than seeing a NM, asking my ls if I could kill it, completly ignoring them then getting oneshotted, its just how I roll, instanced content offers none of this.

Then there is also the monotony of instanced content, either instanced dungeons will start to look the same especially if they have 4 dungeons in one zone, how different can you make a right turn in a dungeon under the desert? Where as if content is open world they can do alot more like coming above ground for a bit, the dungeon can be a shortcut somewhere etc etc.

There is also the added work load for the devs, because if all content is instanced they need to make a new zone for each NM or something rather than add it it the current world, because of this high workload we will get alot more copy/paste.

[Arcell]

Here's the way I see it:

There should definitely be a balance of both, as they both do have their merits.

Open-world:

-See more people doing things in the world
-Competition (and all that comes with it, both good and bad)
-Makes the world feel more "alive" if done well.

Instanced:

-Limitations allow devs to balance the encounter more easily.
-Devs can create a very unique area without worrying lag from too many people or as many hardware limitations
-No competition (and all that comes with it, good and bad)

Then we've got things like leves/faction leves that are kind of a mix. It exists in the open world but only the party who started it can participate. It's still technically instanced, you just get to see it out in the world.

Currently with open-world content balance cannot exist. If something is balanced around one party, bring two. If it's balanced around two parties, bring three, and so on. The devs simply can't account for the fact that theoretically, you could always bring more people. In that regard I think open world content should be balanced around one, maybe two parties maximum so that even smaller Linkshells or groups at least have a shot at completing it.

[weeble]

i like open world content too, but i will agree with op in that i would like to see strongholds go instanced. it's more a preference for when they add the auto groups and stuff. it seems like the only true way to farm gear in them since normally takes forever to get a group going, on top that most just want the win or move threw all the bosses for wins. the way they are now we will need a dkp for them in the future and do linkshell runs threw the week for them too, that is if the gear becomes worthy of farming like that, witch i can only assume that in the future gear will become worth having from the new ones.

but i'd say a nice balance of both open world an instanced would be nice. they can make the open world just as good as instanced. like sky and sea with instanced main boss fights. also maybe an idea off dcu where they have tons of little instances threw the world for quests/bosses that you enter after a few quests. for ffxiv version a full open world like say sky with tons of zones that get instanced to get threw to parts of the zone. use them for entrances/exits to more farming/bosses in different zones. that way it's just not the last fights that are locked from others but say like half of it.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

It's generally more difficult to balance open world dungeons and encounters, especially with the new claim system in place.

An instance can control more factors for content, challenge, loot, time, and ease of access.

Instances don't have to be corridored dungeons or caves. We have had instances already in many story missions, whether it's a piece of the city or in the middle of the open world. Imagine an entire instanced "dungeon" being a trek to the top of a huge mountain overlooking the the Black Shroud or fighting along the lower coasts of Bloodshore.

A balance of open and instanced content can and should exist (loot included). A lopside of style over the other may not be received too well.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

For the open world bosses, it's going to be important how reward distribution is done.

If say Odin is galloping around, cleaving adventurers, enough people are sick of him. They rally their linkshells / companies and people in the neighborhood, massing about a good forty plus people. As an evolution of MMOs, there needs to be a way to reward everyone participatin g (preferably based on contribution to the encounter).

Or IF Ifrit was an open world boss with the current loot system applying to the claiming party (or individual). Most of the server of players at patch rushing him in rotations until they get their Ifrit weapons. How do we balance that? Increase the respawn timer? A timesink that requires multiple people's time and has competition.

Open world "dungeons" can be fun. With groups working in tandem to break new ground. But for low level players who find a group of like minded players trying to brave a dungeon meant for their range, can get bummed out when a high level player comes through in a whirlwind of fury, killing and claiming bosses for an alt. And if they can't be reasoned with: competition, it's only until the rare loot drops, go somewhere else, no response I just keep boss-hopping skipping the mobs that still aggro you.

A balance of Open and instancd dungeon?
Having the entry level of the dungeon open to all parties. Have the quest bosses located in instanced extensions.

[Gramul]

Because I don't like systematic, programed, and bureaucratic tasks in games that claim to promote a personalized play style.

How am I supposed to explore a dungeon when my team is rushing to beat it before time runs out?


How about we just make the bosses instanced?
Or even better! Have an option to let your party go through a dungeon in an instanced fashion for parties who don't want to waste time looking for treasure and secrets, but keep it open for solo explorers who don't want to be constrained by a time limit.