Tank dps harrasment

[Zumi]

If I do something like Shinryu in PF I tank in shield oath because I don't know if a random healer can handle it if I used sword oath. Nobody has ever said a thing to me about tanking in shield oath. I think you just had random group where someone complained about it.

[Arkturius]

honestly i thought this was bait and just rolled with it kek

[Lodinn]

{SNIP} they should stick to what their class is originally designed for.

I keep hearing that opinion and it's really dangerous. People keep going on about healer dps not because healers have dps abilities but because they have overly much healing potential for pretty much 100% content in this game, double so in dungeons (there was a thread in OF where some guy did a healbot dungeon run on purpose and estimated his active time at 17% or so. Don't really want to go into much detail here, it's off-topic anyway).
Similar thing applies to tanks. They have 3 jobs - mitigation (works much like dps cooldowns rotation-wise but are tank cooldowns instead), keeping aggro and positioning the boss/mobs. Sadly, the vast majority of tanks in ffxiv ignores that last responsibility altogether, moreover, it's virtually not applicable to some bosses, shunryu included.
Balancing enmity is literally a tanks' mechanic. Sitting in tank stance all the time alone would satisfy that job being done. Formally, at least. But you can't say tanks are *designed* to be in tank stance all the time. If you are not getting carried by much more geared dps who, by design, have access to aggro management tools, then just sitting in tank stance and hitting targets according to their count (i.e. switching between singletarget and aoe) would provide you with all the aggro you need. That way, aggro would be a redundant mechanic. Tanks *are* designed with stance dancing in mind, and since HW at very least it's blatantly obvious from their ability set.

Now I'm gonna focus on Shinryu and yes, it will be cherry picking (simply because it's hard to give any comment about that claim regarding dungeons which is even hard to believe).
So Shinryu it is... I can see tank being in tank stance all the time getting the boot because...
1) The other tank is doing his job and you make his life MUCH harder by interfering with aggro. Hello to all the offtank BB spammers back in HW.
2) DPS would have harder time as well, by being inefficient you rob group of about 2k dps which is around 10% of its total dps output, give or take. PERMANENT. POST-BUFF PRE-NERF. AOE. BALANCE.
As a team, everyone would have to try really really really hard to make up for this. If the group is already barely afloat with some 16k raid dps, you are a part of a problem and possibly even main issue.
People keep saying "nuuuuu but raid content is being designed around dps getting gud and tanks and heals basically semi-botting" but if you just go to fflogs and find the longest kill ever and see how much raid dps they were doing and then find tanks being at the bare bottom in terms of dps and subtract that... Let's see. About 23890 raid dps to beat enrage, around 1800 dps PLD (Hiro Nine) who didn't die and get hit by mechanics... That leaves dps at about 5k EACH to beat the enrage. That's less than top 1% of players. If that's not carrying I don't know what is. Content is NOT designed around tanks sitting in tank stance day and night and healers not dpsing at all.
And Shinryu is apparently raid content so being efficient mentality should be a thing there.
3) Healers. For a healer, tank in tank stance is not helping that much but not hurting, either. It's possible, however, to be called out on playing the class wrong because they were unhappy about something else. Like, if you take a lot of damage, healer starts looking at you and he doesn't know about tank cooldown rotation but he knows for sure you *shouldn't* be in tank stance so much... You might be called out on that.

Unrelated: I try tanking myself for the first time in the game pretty much and i find myself in grit quite often. I do drop it on bosses but 4.0 made it hard to aoe trash without some extra mana generation, and mitigation ain't that amazing, either. But that's just DRK things and are not raid-related. However, if you are playing this class as your main... People would expect you to know it bit better.

[HoodRat]

casual vs raid tier

It's not that black and white, there is plenty of middle ground. Let me refer you back to my earlier comment of

Except it's not about having "Savage skill level," it's about actually putting in effort. I'll never understand why people think actually trying means they have to be top 10%.

[Hayward]

It's not that black and white, there is plenty of middle ground. Let me refer you back to my earlier comment of

Let's cut the BS. "Putting in effort" means doing YOUR job well enough to get things done. Don't try to foist this MLG-speak on people who don't give a toss about raids or raiders. This tank did her job and did it well, and some jacka$$ decides cut a promo on her for not being a tryhard. That garbage is why players have a negative attitude toward raiders, period.

[Gemina]

Just to chime in, I've personally witnessed quite a few tanks get harassed in dungeons for not dropping tank stance. It's one of things that kept me away from tanking for a very long time, even though I always wanted to do it. Not that it was my intent to not try and contribute to DPS, but because I find it completely ridiculous for such expectations to exist in a dungeon, and I've already had so many tiring days defending the healer side of this topic. There should be no question that players that carry these high expectations exist in all content, and there are actually quite a few of them from my experience.

I find that tank play is greatly taken for granted in this game. A tank who is holding agro is doing a good job, because when they hold agro it makes things easier for everyone else. DO NOT take that for playing optimally. That is not what I mean. When you get a lousy tank, or your tank dies, we all know how much more difficult this makes the run, if not a full on wipe. That madness is all because nothing is casting a net around all the mob enmity.

Community is already short on tanks, and we're going to chastise them for not dropping tank stance, or IOW, flame them for doing their job? Just doesn't add up. It is quite simple though, if you don't like the way your tank is tanking in a dungeon, just ask to be vote dismissed and hop right back in the queue. It's totally win/win since the tank is a hindrance to your playstyle, and you are a hindrance to their growth.

[HoodRat]

Let's cut the BS. "Putting in effort" means doing YOUR job well enough to get things done. Don't try to foist this MLG-speak on people who don't give a toss about raids or raiders. This tank did her job and did it well, and some jacka$$ decides cut a promo on her for not being a tryhard. That garbage is why players have a negative attitude toward raiders, period.

Remind me not to play tic-tac-toe with you.

[Xerek]

Remind me not to play tic-tac-toe with you.

Yes, because FF XIV is a turn-based game no more complex then tic-tac-toe. Going to compare it to pong next? :eyeroll:

[Hayward]

Remind me not to play tic-tac-toe with you.

That meme doesn't fly with me or any other person who isn't a wannabe MLG'er. I and others who play tank jobs as intended aren't quite as interested in our damage as in our ability to survive while doing what damage we can within our intended role. That doesn't come even close to warranting some jerk (who likely doesn't have DRK unlocked, much less touched Gladiator or Marauder) heaping abuse at a tank doing his/her job right. Have a seat, hotshot.

[Miste]

Let's cut the BS. "Putting in effort" means doing YOUR job well enough to get things done. Don't try to foist this MLG-speak on people who don't give a toss about raids or raiders. This tank did her job and did it well, and some jacka$$ decides cut a promo on her for not being a tryhard. That garbage is why players have a negative attitude toward raiders, period.

Simply dropping tank stance on bosses in Expert Roulette is not "try hard". It is actually not that much different than just using tank stance and it is quite easy to get used to in my opinion.

You just open in tank stance, obtain solid hate, then switch to DPS stance and cycle your cooldowns to avoid taking too much damage. If you notice DPS are creeping on you then you make proper judgement on using more hate combo or if you need to go back into tank stance or not; also if the healer is new or seems to be struggling for any reason it is fine to stay in tank stance. The bosses generally don't do enough damage to need tank stance.

I mean if you can do your main role of tanking also while DPSing for more why wouldn't you do it? It's beneficial for everyone. I am not saying it is okay to harass a tank not doing it or kick them, because I think that is way overboard and not necessary in a dungeon, but I see nothing wrong with advocating more beneficial play styles and putting in the effort to try new ways of playing that would be beneficial for everyone.