Tank dps harrasment

[SuperZay]

All jobs in this game are DPS with secondary responsibilities: tanking, healing, support.
Once you realise this mindset, you'll become a better player and will play better.
Staying in tank stance when its not needed or semi-afking with casting one Cure II in 15 seconds is just doing a bare minimum of what your job can do.

[Xerek]

All jobs in this game are DPS with secondary responsibilities: tanking, healing, support.
Once you realise this mindset, you'll become a better player and will play better.
Staying in tank stance when its not needed or semi-afking with casting one Cure II in 15 seconds is just doing a bare minimum of what your job can do.

...

There is a disconnect in thread, and I think I'm done with it. I DPS as a healer, I drop to DPS stance as a tank. Never have I said people shouldn't. My sole arguement has been there are some people who cannot do better. Not won't, can't. And in regards to casual content, my line for minimum is tank hold adds, healer keep people alive. Casual content is casual. I do not approve of or endorse laziness. If people can do better, they should. But I'm not about to attack or kick people in casual content that are doing they best they can and accomplishing the goal SE has stated for their job.

Sadly, at this point, I feel we're all just going in circles here.

[Xerek]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think we all more agree on most of this then we realize. We share the same expectations. The true point of contention seems to be that I and some others believe that some players out there can't do better, and if they are honestly doing their best and still holding aggro/keeping people alive in casual content, then that's alright. The other side believes it is impossible that those people exist, that everyone can do better then that, that every single tank that doesn't drop into DPS stance for dungeon bosses or DPS while healing is doing so due to laziness. That's the crux, here. The question of whether or not it's possible that players doing that are actually at their limit, unable (not unwilling) to do more.

Nobody here is condoning laziness, or doing the bare minimum if they could be doing better.

[anguel]

ill give my opinion (as a pure tank), for me a MT (tank) must be able to do few things,
1) : keep the hate (its kinda annoying to go in for shinryu EX or any omega savage, and behind told right after joining in "please hold the hate properly"), so this, a good tank must not loose hes target hate not matter what !

2) behind able to withstand incoming damage, when your the OT and you see the MT tanking without the tank stance, and taking HUGE amount off dmg (forcing the heal to overheal ...) is kinda annoying ... (do i have to explain why ? ), its frustrating, to wipe because the tank didnt want to use tank stance, and almost get insta killed everytime (or near death) and blaming healer for not doing theire job ...

thats is for me the prerequist to be a good tank, doing DPS come after those 2 point and ONLY after


and last, for me id prefer staying in tank stance and be sure to tank PROPERLY incoming dmg, and releif the Healing stress, and allow healer to eventually do some more dps if he want to


to end this, i cleared shinryu EX with a full grp of I320 ppl, but i keep seeing grp with I330+ wiping miserably in front of it (failing to kill heart in time, adds, etc etc) so yes its cool to have someone that can do some point dmg, but from what im seeing its DEFINITLY REQUIRED, whats is needed its player with brains that is a must have !


PS : srry for my poor English ^^

[Crysten]

thats is for me the prerequist to be a good tank, doing DPS come after those 2 point and ONLY after

No.

Being able to hold hate and mitigate damage makes you an average tank.

The difference between an average tank and a good tank is that the good tank can do those two things as well as help contribute DPS at the same time.

That's like saying a good healer can keep everyone alive during an expert dungeon. That's performing your role, not excelling at it.

[anguel]

No.

Being able to hold hate and mitigate damage makes you an average tank.

The difference between an average tank and a good tank is that the good tank can do those two things as well as help contribute DPS at the same time.

never said that you couldnt do both while dpsing did i said that ? ofc its possible to hold hate, mitigate dmg AND dps at the same time, what im saying is that, its not an absolute things to do, if i see a player that tank, and dont do as much DMG as i do , as long as we clear the dungeon, boss, or whatever we are doing, then its fine for me

yes there is room for improvement for everyone (me first) but forcing ppl into a certain playstyle when its NOT 100% needed

the thing its i just dont understand the "need to be perfect everywhere or its a bitg "no no""

[Crysten]

You said that being able to do the absolute minimum required of your role makes you good.

I'm saying you're wrong. Doing the bare minimum makes you average at best.

[Dualgunner]

Actually, the more I think about it, I think we all more agree on most of this then we realize. We share the same expectations. The true point of contention seems to be that I and some others believe that some players out there can't do better, and if they are honestly doing their best and still holding aggro/keeping people alive in casual content, then that's alright. The other side believes it is impossible that those people exist, that everyone can do better then that, that every single tank that doesn't drop into DPS stance for dungeon bosses or DPS while healing is doing so due to laziness. That's the crux, here. The question of whether or not it's possible that players doing that are actually at their limit, unable (not unwilling) to do more.

Nobody here is condoning laziness, or doing the bare minimum if they could be doing better.

I disagree. Everybody can always do better. Its a matter of wanting to.

Actually, you just proved what I said correct, with you and I perfectly representing those opposing viewpoints.

Obstacles are just a test of how badly you want something. Some have more obstacles than others, and its not necessarily fair, but anybody who genuinely wants to be better at something will find a way.

The question becomes "Do they need to be better?" To which I would say not necessarily. In high end content, yes one should always strive to be better than they were before. In dungeons and 24 mans? No not really, they're tuned for casuals to enjoy.

[Xerek]

I disagree. Everybody can always do better. Its a matter of wanting to.

Actually, you just proved what I said correct, with you and I perfectly representing those opposing viewpoints.