SAM out classing all other DPS

[Nominous]

The whole, "But SAM doesn't lose its resources, so it doesn't get punished!" argument is getting so tired. Please look into the Job if you're going to be angry at it. They don't lose resources, which is correct. They get punished through means of overlapping the resource, which loses them potency and puts them behind/unsynced with the rest of their rotation. It sounds like it wouldn't happen, but when you get chosen for mechanics, or bosses jump, it does.

On SAM you lose potency in ways that aren't readily apparent. Same with positionals. People see that the combo potency doesn't require the positional, so they assume SAM has it easier. Untrue. It loses you Kenki. To be exact, 300 potency lost through 5 missed positionals, roughly the same level of punishment as the other Melee.

Oh what about BoTD, and GL, and other buffs dropping? Not gonna happen on DRG, because by the time you finish one combo, you're already about halfway back to the cooldown being available for it again. Also, Nastrond is a grand total of 4% or so of a DRG's DPS. Needs changing, but losing one set of Nastronds would set you back probably less than 1% of their total DPS. MNK has it slightly harder, in that they need PB to gain back all benefits quickly. Considering the overwhelming amount of tools to manage and keep it up though, you won't lose it often. I could go on and on.

As always, each Job has its own set of difficulties. Everyone loses damage on mechanics, just in different ways.

[Oscura]

Sam needs to be 2% above Drg with only slashing debuff and no other utility while being sorely behind non and Mnk. Sam also needs to have all it's combo buffs set to 10 seconds since 30 seconds is too long compared to other jobs.

Higanbana also neds to have its duration dropped from 1 minute to 17 seconds.

Hagakure should only ever consume half a Sen.

Meditate should only give you 20 kenki.

Midare should be matched to Mnks highest potency move before GL3 buffs are applied.

Guren should be nerfed to 400 potency.

Meikyo should be 3 minute cool down like PB.

Sam's regular potency moves should be weaker than drgs AND the should have no way to buff their damage still.

The moment the overlap a Sen, the Sam should damage itself with a move to commit suicide:seppuku

Increase the kenki costs of all kenki abilities by 20.

Any missed positional result in 75% damage reduction and a subtraction of kenki from your kenki bar. Make every move a positional that has the same stipulation!! Even the kenki abilities!

Please make these changes happen SE. These changes have to happen to quell the masses and kill the class!!!!

Sorry, but I had to post to just say this meltdown is totally sad.
If you don't like people criticizing your class, then just stop reading the OF or posting here.
No need to get all hyperbolic and make posts full of vitriol.

I know we've disagreed in the past but I at least respected your opinion.

[Janhyua]

Sam needs to be 2% above Drg with only slashing debuff and no other utility while being sorely behind non and Mnk. Sam also needs to have all it's combo buffs set to 10 seconds since 30 seconds is too long compared to other jobs.

You are one sad dragoon lol

Pity you really... how about you play samurai study the job play it to its full potential and then come back here for a discussion because all of the point you mentioned is basically delete samurai and that make you a one sad peraon

[Oscura]

You are one sad dragoon lol

Pity you really... how about you play samurai study the job play it to its full potential and then come back here for a discussion because all of the point you mentioned is basically delete samurai and that make you a one sad peraon

He IS a Samurai.

His post is sarcastically and more importantly aggressively addressing the complaints people are making with as much hyperbole as possible.

He is essentially agreeing with you.

Edit: It's clear that for some people the forum isn't to read or discuss things, more just to talk at the other person and belligerently repeat their opinions. "Anything that conveniences specifically me cannot be criticized," might as well be the motto for the OF.

[Janhyua]

He IS a Samurai.

His post is sarcastically and more importantly aggressively addressing the complaints people are making with as much hyperbole as possible.

He is essentially agreeing with you.

Edit: It's clear that for some people the forum isn't to read or discuss things, more just to talk at the other person and belligerently repeat their opinions. "Anything that conveniences specifically me cannot be criticized," might as well be the motto for the OF.

Ah thanks for the correction, my weeb senser got triggered and drawn my katana out for no reason~~~

[Ryaz]

There's a huge difference between keeping Chakra, and keeping Greased Lightning.
Or keeping Ninki, and losing Huton (though admittedly you can easily pop this back on).


The point I was trying to make is, other melee are severely punished during downtime, while SAMs Sen AND Kenki are untouched. Am I supposed to believe a lack of utility allows jobs to greatly surpass others in the same role?

Huton is a damage buff skill, not a resource... Losing it is pretty much the same as SAM losing Shifu/Jinpu, except Huton lasts a much longer time and can be recast while the boss is away.

[Black_Starr]

Had I the foresight to see how the ffxiv masses would break out the pitchforks and torches demanding samurai be nerfed into the ground, I would have stuck with my monk. It wasn't long ago dragons were must have classes and monks were all but disregarded and no one cared. The table turned and now you demand balance. Monk needed this support and most ppl just said delete it, so I say delete dry, mch, and any other class that was on top and ignored the plight of monks.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

It's clear that for some people the forum isn't to read or discuss things, more just to talk at the other person and belligerently repeat their opinions. "Anything that conveniences specifically me cannot be criticized," might as well be the motto for the OF.

Indeed it might as well be. Those demanding Samurai be nerfed are certainly expressing as much with their sentiments. :'3

[HolyTurtle]

This is already an issue itself, but I'm not comfortable just discarding this piece of utility because we implicitly assume that "it's always there" (which shouldn't be the case, but that's how centralising NIN really is these days).

This is a legitimate criticism given that PLD/DRK accounts for 42.3% of tank compositions. If the composition doesn't have WAR, then SAM/NIN has much higher raid dps contribution than MNK/DRG. Otherwise, SAM/NIN is only about 4.5% higher than MNK/DRG.

Also 5% is a lot. If you raid, you've seen many low% enrages. Now think about that one week where you were stuck on A8S at sub 10% and consider that half of those would've been clears if you were using the meta comp.
You can't tell me to disregard this (and, seeing the slashing debuff comment, this is a slight underestimate under your questionable premise xD).

I think you mistook 5% of SAM dps for 5% of raid dps. On average, SAM does about 18.6% of raid dps. If MNK does 4.5% less than SAM (according to my analysis), i.e. using MNK in place of SAM would cause you to lose only 0.837% of raid dps. This is negligible.

Another issue I have is that the multiplicative argument goes both ways- if you have a very strong base dps, you get more out of some buffs. Dragon Sight, Ifrit's single target thing...

Unfortunately, this also means that the dps data for SAM from FFlogs is inflated by single-targeted buffs concentrating on SAM. Since the data is aggregated, I can't really filter out the effect of single-targeted buffs; therefore, I cannot factor your concern in my analysis.

[HolyTurtle]

If you nerf Sam then what the point of bringing a samurai when you can bring ninja which offer slashing debuff and trick attack!?!?!?!?!?! Ever think of that!?!?!? Ninja dps is pretty close to samurai if they got nerfed you can just delete samurai lol

SAM provides approximately 4.5% more raid dps contribution than DRG and MNK and equal contribution to NIN when their party buffs (Trick Attacks, Brotherhood, Battle Litany, the piercing debuff, Dragon Sight) are factored in. With PLD/DRK, SAM provides even more raid dps contribution because of its slashing debuff.