SAM out classing all other DPS

[Dualgunner]

Yes, because in Susie I have to move once a minute, and not (literally) 4 times in 10 seconds for Levinbolt. Or puddles. Or knockback.
Same argument applies to melee. I guess they don't have these ogcds to quickly go near the boss. Go figure.

To be fair, Dragoon's gap closers are on some bad cooldowns as well. Not that I'm disagreeing, just pointing out another way DRG is screwed compared to "Gap Closer Every 10 Seconds SAM" and "Resets Gap Closer with Raiton" NIN.

[silentwindfr]

snips

do blm have positional? do blm need to return to melee after move because of a big aoe? do the blm risk to get a cleave because the tank move the boss?

no, no and no....

BLM is a ranged, he have an aoe to avoid, he get out of it and return to his dps, a melee get out of the aoe and need to return to melee for fight.
BLM have 0 risk involved... you simply want to be the best dps of ranged, great news in terms of raws power in Final Fantasy series.... Summoner is the true big dps of ranged. blm is only the caster that have spell that allows to be efficient most of the time (because of weakness, what we don't have here)

blm don't have any mana management, you switch into ice umbral and your mana is back, other need to manage them mana... honestly speaking, for me blm player are like diva that don't accept that other can do better than them... and since....pfiuu.... for age. not the first time blm come and complain to not be top dps...

RDM need to go in melee for them burst, then get ahead of blm is normal... whenever a jobs need to get in melee they need to take risk. and i will post this:

■Balancing DPS Roles■

I already touched upon this in my previous LIVE letter, but I'd like to take the opportunity to clarify balance among DPS roles.

Recently, samurai damage has been the subject of much debate, prompting many comparisons between jobs. In bringing samurai in line with other jobs, however, we not only look at solo damage values, but take all of the following into account:

Damage dealt when solo.
Susceptibility to mechanics (jobs affected more by mechanics deal slightly more solo damage, and vice versa).
Ability to raise a full party's total damage.


For instance, dragoon can greatly increase party members' damage, but deals less solo damage than samurai. In contrast, samurai boasts high solo damage, but cannot do much to increase party damage. Things such as the aforementioned susceptibility and the ability to perform ranged attacks are also considered.

We can't say with absolute certainty that the values will be perfect from the start, and it will be difficult to get a feel for the adjustments before they are released alongside Omega: Deltascape (Savage). For now, we will work towards applying those changes deemed necessary to 4.05, and we look forward to your feedback after you have played the raid.

blm is not more affected than any ranged class with cast... plus he get 2 skill for instant cast then *shrugs* (without forget the proc that allows to cast instant a few spell)

I'd actually argue that SSD/ST are both easier to use than Shukuchi. I had to make a macro for Shu to make it easier to use.

totally with you on this, i find the gap closer of rdm and sam to be amazing in comparaison of all other one.

[Galvuu]

RDM need to go in melee for them burst, then get ahead of blm is normal... whenever a jobs need to get in melee they need to take risk. and i will post this.

I'll only address this. I raid with RDM a lot, and this is just utterly wrong.
In fact, I tend to stay in melee the whole fight so I don't have to move much for my melee combo (heck, I have Dualcast for that, but why even do that when I can just sit there) and to stack puddles in Susie to help the melee. I also don't even need to move for the share, so being in melee helps overall uptime (and I get autos in for 70 damage, I guess). There's like no risk. I feel much more in danger when I'm away- farther from healers (idk if you knew, but the aoe heals tick radially- if you have any latency, the nearest people get their HP back half a second faster. This was an issue in A11S if you wanted to dps thru the burn... plus, the healers migh position a bit closer to the tank and I may end up out of range), have to sprint if I get tagged by a share...
The same is true for Lak. The only boss where I stand away right now is Exdeath for Void T3. On Halicarnassus the fight is so much smoother if you're on top of her for the ribbit cone aoe.
I never felt on RDM that I was better served being far from the boss except in Exdeath.

[Nominous]

And BLM is another example, provided they make it slightly better, of what I'd like to see more of in the game. So, you're not wrong. Also, when only 2 of 9 DPS Jobs lack utility, its unique. It isn't exclusive, but it is the rarity at this point.

[Waliel]

Ohhh slashing debuff. Thats it that is the whole basis of the argument. Nin is a lock for a raid war may get in too making Sam slashing pointless

<devil's>Or is it that SAM having slashing makes NIN and WAR irrelevant?</advocate>

[MiruWest]

I think melee and caster are both hindered by mechanics/movement about the same, with some a tad more than others. Its just people have learned to know what they can and cannot get away with as far as movement goes and how to adapt to it. Yes a melee can dash back to the boss but that method is rather clunky for some jobs or just simply used in your rotation, so the only class that holds true for is SAM. But its not as tho casters havnt been moving for mechanics in between GCD for years, same as everyone else. Not to mention tools have been given to each to handle movement a little bit better although nowhere near perfect.

O1 a caster can sit in the middle and cast away, only really having to move slightly to dodge flames, where as the boss jumps from side to side, often requiring melee to lose uptime if a gap closer isnt up.

02 is a dummy parse for everyone as nothing is difficult, mechanically, requiring you to move so much.

03 is another dummy parse with the only real problem is ribbit which the caster can just range. Theres also the rocky tile phase where everyones gets the mechanic to spread, melee have no choice but to move away while the range still put out dps, but even so its not so bad that melee are behind on the fight.

04 melee can move easier for blizzard 3 but range have it easier for thunder 3, so again none of the mechanics hurt anyone more than the other.

[Stormbad]

I'm leveling a SAM and one thing I can say for sure is how consistently good this job from 50-65, at no point did I ever feel like there was a skill gap or things missing to ensure I can maximize the job. And every level I gain, it just gets better and better. Compared to other DPS jobs, there are very awkward moments within a few levels there seem to be completely missing gaps in skills and the flow of the job.

[Shiroe]

Swiftcast and Triplecast does not exist I guess. it\\'s not 100% but it\\'s sure isn\\'t 0.

those are part of blm best burst, while the gab closers of melee are not as essential for the dps burst.. and can be held on to easier for gap closing

and Sam has a gab closer and gab increaser, both on short cds

blm is possibly the most difficult dps in end raids, even if it\\'s rotation is the easiest (can\\'t stand hearing things like: smn are harder to maintain in end raids, or Sam get punished hard)

for that both Sam and Blm both don\\'t have any utility (at least Sam has slashing, blm zero).., they should have an equal dps if not blm more.., but it\\'s by far not the case.., even rdm us doing better than blm

but blm is not the only class, that needs fixing, when looking at Sam and rdm.. (smn, drg and ofc mch have issues too, but maybe SE is waiting for more players to shift, like trying to get more on drg at start of 3.0)

[Ryaz]

Slashing isn't relly utility. It's synergy. All it does is increase dps potential which is our main role. Utility would be if Sam, as a DPS class, could raise allies, lower enemy damage to make tanking easier, restore hp/mp, etc. You can balance synergy abilities much easier than you can utility as all dps synergy abilities do is add more damage which can be figured our and balanced with some math. It's much harder to balance abilities like Raise, because they add an abstract value to the team.

[Elnidfse]

Slashing isn't ready utility. It's synergy. All it does is increase dps potential which is our main role. Utility would be if Sam, as a DPS class, could raise allies, lower enemy damage to make tanking easier, restore hp/mp, etc. You can balance synergy abilities much easier than you can utility as all dps synergy abilities do is add more damage which can be figured our and balanced with some math. It's much harder to balance abilities like Raise, because they add an abstract value to the team.

Except half of what you say is completely invalid. Yoshi gives no care about defensive increases.

Recently, samurai damage has been the subject of much debate, prompting many comparisons between jobs. In bringing samurai in line with other jobs, however, we not only look at solo damage values, but take all of the following into account:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...80#post4263080

• Damage dealt when solo.
• Susceptibility to mechanics (jobs affected more by mechanics deal slightly more solo damage, and vice versa).
• Ability to raise a full party's total damage.

For instance, dragoon can greatly increase party members' damage, but deals less solo damage than samurai. In contrast, samurai boasts high solo damage, but cannot do much to increase party damage. Things such as the aforementioned susceptibility and the ability to perform ranged attacks are also considered.

Your raise example means absolutely nothing because it's not what jobs are balanced around. And yes a slashing debuff is utility. You can apply it which allows others not to. Much how a NIN used to just be able to avoid applying his if a WAR was in the party.